Goku all the way, I mean, don’t get me wrong, Superman would put up quite a fight and certainly do some major damage, but hands down Goku can match all his abilities and then do more.
umm first off @super, goku isn’t a human… he’s a SUPER SAIYIAN!!!!!! also I do believe goku would die, but the z-fighters would use the dragonballs to bring him back to life and then he would come back and destroy Superman with a Super Spirit Bomb like the one used against buu
Superman isn’t faster than the speed of light; Goku is. Superman can’t control his ki; Goku can. Goku knows martial arts; Superman…well, he just punches for the most part and blows cold air on people. Goku has a damn near ridiculous group of friends that can kick Superman’s ass; Superman is stuck with DC comics…ouch; Superman as a weakness – Kryptonite; Goku…well he has none. Goku has access to Senzu beans, Superman relies on Sun bathing….; Goku has instant transmission – he can take Superman across the galaxy and come back to Earth and poof…no more issues wih Superman. I think Goku clearly wins here..in the end though I can crush them all since their all made of paper…..:D
GOKU MAY BE BETTER THAN SUPERMAN BUT SUPERMAN CAN ALSO INCREASE HIS SUPER POWERS AS FAR AS GOKU HAS. GOKU MAY HAVE THE KAME HAME WAVE BUT SUPERMAN HAVE HIS EYEBLAST. SUPERMAN CAN BE AS FAST AS GOKU IF HE WANTS TO. SUPERMAN MAY HAVE A WEEKNESS BUT GOKU ALSO HAVE WEEKNESS, HIS TAIL, SUPERMAN WILL JUST HOLD ON GOKU’S TAIL AND KILL HIM….
NYAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Goku would definitely win. He is the hardest working character anyone has ever seen. The dude worked out under a 100X earths gravity for gods sake. Also, the kame hame wave can destroy eye blast(comment for Dorobo man), super man can’t teleport, like goku, or transform. Another thing, goku has no weakness. His tail was cut off and Kami made sure it wouldn’t grow back. And as a saiyan gets stronger, their tails aren’t as much of a weak spot anymore. One more thing, super man’s power comes from the sun, if he weren’t anywhere near it, he would lose his power. Goku always has power anywhere he goes, plus he is a fighting genius.
Okay guys lets take this into a serious perspective
superman and goku would have to be the two strongest people in the universe so this battle would be completely epic. but superman would definitely come out on top considering the fact that he actually is just as strong and fast as Goku, they both can move faster than the eye can see and both have the potential to destroy planets. shit when comets come down to earth superman doesn’t use a kamehameha he just goes up there and fucking punches it and it explodes. superman and goku would be fighting forever and goku runs out of ki where superman’s powerlevel always stays the same, goku would end up losing.
Superman, even though his power level can stay the same, if Goku decides to get serious, he would win. Goku’s senzu beans will heal him completely. Superman, he has to wait to be done healing. Heck, when ss4 goku merged with ss4 vegeta, they had the power to create stuff out of nothing (as you may see when gogeta faked a big bang kamehameha and instead made confetti) Not even superman has the power to create. If Goku wasn’t so damn playful he would kill superman in less than 10 seconds flat. If superman was stronger than goku, than goku just has to get hurt, eat a senzu bean, and now he is equally strong. Its in his blood to love fighting.
If superman tries to punch goku nothing will happen because gokus energy is so much it will act like a shield and deflect things.
Goku could punch a hole through superman.
yea goku all the way hes like a machine gets smarter and more serious as he fights superman will have to try to make it quick bet there speed is incredible who faster???
Goku would go through superman like a wet paper bag. Superman is bad ass but Goku is on a level by himslef. Superman would have beat Goku up to the DBZ saga when Goku first fights Vagita and Napa.
I’d say goku if he went super sayan, but if Superman somehow got to the sun, Supes would win. He once moved an entire planet when he was supercharged. just think of what his heat vission could do.
CMON..seriously guys..this is a mismatch..goku is like the strongest being on the fantasy world..he can destroy a whole planet with 1 shot..you cant see him when he moves..he can always increase his level..officialy he can transform to ss4 but on AF he has ss5 and ss6 and im sure it could reach ss 1000000000000000..if needed be depending on the opponent..goku never really dies..he is just transported to the 2nd life and can return back to the living..Superman is strong but he has a lot of limitation..hell! even some of gokus buddies would whoop supermans ass..
But as mentioned by Nameless..Chuck Norris would shred goku and superman at the same time..Bow down to Mr. Norris..
its hard to say who would win.. cuz superman isnt completely invincable… if u recall in the comics, cartoons, smallville and movies… anything thats not human, can hurt superman.. think about Doom.. come on now.. Goku woulda mopped the floor with Doom.. but the only difference between the two is that Goku would loose energy during the battle.. superman has an unlimited amount since he gets his power from the sun.. so its hard to say who would really win
unless they fought at night haha. but seriously, from what i’ve seen of both characters in comics, manga and t.v. shows alike, there is no contest. goku would annihilate superman. he wouldn’t kill him because superman is not a bad guy. he would just go easy on him to make things interesting but he’d eventually finish superman off with little effort and then congratulate him on his fighting ability and sportsmanship. hell, goku may even ask him join the z fighters and help defend the earth haha. i don’t have anything against superman, he’s one bad dude. but i gotta tell it like it is.
first of all goku is the most powerful being ever conceived by super heero writers. super has EXTREME vulnerability to kryptonite and lack of sunlight where as goku is vertually invincible. goku, being a sayian has the natural ability to become 5x stronger after every near death experience. which means that after about 20 yrs of dbz goku can excede superman. also goku is a super saiyan he can raise his power lvls beyond measure as the battle would be over before it statred
Goku would win superman can die and has in the comics before though they brought him back but Goku would be a match for him in his super saiyan form 1 so with 2 it would increase his speed by 50 and he also has super saiyan mode 3 that would increase by just as much anyways in the DC universe there are just 3 people in his league so he doesn’t get much stronger over time while goku trains all the time and is constantly getting stronger
Goku can teleport, fly, emit pure energy(or ki) to completely annihilate his foes ( look what he did to Cooler), and if he is serious enough he can transfom into multiple forms ten times more powerful than the last. Clearly there is no point in a fight when goku can just summon Shenron to grant Goku the power to just kill superman in 1 punch
Goku has the advantage, first of all neither is human. Goku is a sayin, and superman is kryptonian. So that crushes the human factor out. Superman’s only weakness is kryptonite, other wise he is indestructible. Superman gains his power from planets that have a yellow sun. His home world had a red sun, every kryptonian takes the likeness of a human while exposed to a red sun. No special powers. Goku however is not hindered by this weakness, no specific planet or sun gives him an advantage or disadvantage. He is the same on every planet. It would be easy for goku to win. Instant transmission himself and superman to a galaxy with a red sun, then it would be like a human fighting a sayian. Plus goku has more abilities than superman such as, being a supreme master at martial arts, ki control, signature attacks, transformations, finnishing attacks, the ability to sense any persons energy which makes it impossible to hide, and the fact that he can move at the speed of light. Superman is greatly out classed.
Super man CANNOT BEAT GOKU.Right when Goku changes into supersayen,superman will have a hard time trying to lay a finger on him.And if he transforms into a supersayen 3,
Don’t blink or you will miss superman’s death.
I think superman would not be able to beat Goku,And everyone knows that.
Only why peolpe say superman can beat Goku,is because they like superman better.
In cartoons they always exaggerate,So who will when in real life.Will look at the qualities
of each character,Superman has all his powers he uses on the average,and Goku has
all his powers he uses on the average.(No exaggerating)
Think about this, Goku can get stronger by transforming and superman cannot.Goku beated many villains
which are more powerful than superman:Buu,Cell,Broly.And Superman has a deadly weakness,kryptonite.Only thing superman has on Goku is he can breathe in space.
first of all i am the #1 DBZ FAN EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! second superman has no chance even if none of them would even use power ups goku would win. goku has battled many enemys even stronger than his self and he came out on top gokus so strong now that he could use the kaioken and still win and even if superman wants to get his DC people goku vegeta and gohan could defeat them by thereselves and after every battle every saiyan gets even stronger so they could keep going and going up to super saiyan 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or even farther superman automatically has NO CHANCE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the fact is that goku by merely powering can destroy planets, if he wants he could only have to look at supermans source of energy, the sun, and boom there goes supermans power….. in the end, its no contest
If you ever watched a Superman cartoon you will see he has trouble fighting robots, , aliens, and weak human “super villains”.
If you ever watch DBZ, you will see Goku and even his weaker friends disintegrating people, cities, moons, planets, stars etc. Of course Goku would win.
DUH!!!!!
no doubt this will be an epic battl the earth would not be able to contian it. superman is
the second fastset person in every universe flash is first.goku will get tired and he cant go to space without a ship.also superman is the man of steel.when it comes to the last hit superman will win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol some dude wrote that goku has a weakness ” his tail” umm goku hasnt had a tail since he was like 8 and when he hits ss4 yeah it comes back but then you have to deal with a ss4 lol super man may be made of steel but goke can punch through steel lol heres how i see the fight going : goku instant translocation to whats left of planet kripton grab a rock instan translocation back to earth give chichi said rock and watch his wife beat up a so called super hero : end lol
even if superman would win and im definatly not saying that, right before superman lands a finishing blow (even though that blow will never come) vegeta will just turn up, and treat superman like that punch tester from the martial arts tournament.
either that or goku and vegeta will just laugh at superman and get truks and goten to beat him up, like they did in the OVA episode.
goku destroys superman with easss and heres a nother he beats him with easss superbuuhan well simply because his magic himself hahahahahaha superman can be killed by anybody with a green rock or while under a red sun and simply sertain types of magic and WTF it don’t matter if he grab his tail cause most like he master it in ssj 4 or it just don’t effect him and why would superman hold his tail cause for one he would not even know about thay so i’m like ?????????????????? cause he would not even know about that so okay goku wins with eass so do any of the buus inculeing majuub
Yeahhhhh. Goku by a freaking mile. One way to win: Instant transmission himself and Superman to a planet that does not share the earth’s sun. Another way? Kaaaaaammmmmeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhaaaaaa…
It depends on who is writing the battle. Dragon Ball Z should have ended after the Frieza Saga as it was intended too. I mean all the other story lines were cool after that but it distorted and deviated away from what it was.
You have to think of the fact that goku is faster than superman, because of goku’s instant transmition, so goku could always escape, eat some senzu, then come back and fight with full power. So while superman looses his energy while he keeps fighting goku, goku can keep regaining his strength, and eventually overrun superman.
Goku is outrageously untouchable, and his power can exceed human standards tenfold. And to his credit, Goku has no weakness – unless you combine Frieza, Cell, Majin Bu, Brolly and maybe a couple others into one being – although that much power in one being would be unstable…giving Goku the advantage.
Superman however, is not human. The (alien) Man of Steel. Not a single thing you do to him is even going to scratch him – unless you come across some of that beautiful meteor rock affectionately known as Kryptonite.
That being said, in a standard fight between Superman and Goku, the result is eminent:
Even.
They’re both far too strong to be affected by anything, and there’s nothing else to be said about them. Both are the best of the best. So like I said, if it was just a face off to the death, we’d be watching a fight for eternity. In the battle of wits however, Goku would pump some Kryptonite into the Man of Steel and be done with him in 10 seconds.
Goku is waaaay cooler, for the record…you just can’t go wrong with blasting your enemies with concentrated energy. And the hair is sweet, haha…
Goku wid win cuz goku can move faster then the speed of light super man has weaknesses and goku dusnt bt goku wid still beat super man becouse goku is the strongest in the universe superman only has 1 power level while goku can increase rapidly
MAN GOKU WOULD SPANK SUPERMAN AND WISH HIM BACK AND THE THE SAME AGAIN!!! vand if he does lose to superman goku always comes back and way more stronger since his a saiyian!
remember goku and superman are both aliens and im tire of people forgetting that superman when he puts on mother box he is twice stronger then before and dont forget that superman was pure energy at one time so if you put ssj4 goku superman as energy would have the edge google it.
frekin vegeta when he first appeared destoryed planet with 12,000 power level.
now scouter can’t even detect Goku’s power level. When he went to Namek Goku was at 180,000. and and with Super S-Jin 1,2,3,4 he is at leat million time stronger.
frekin Goku will win at easy against Superman even without Super S-Jin.
sorry Superman fans(well i am his fan too lol) , Superman is like fly to Goku. He can take bath inside Sun but he won’t even be able to hurt Goku in any ways.
Superman wins?? Are you guys serious?? Superman is not as fast as goku I’ve seen him fight when goku fight he temporarily vanishes not Sups! His punches are slow and predictable and as far as strenght wise pppffftttt not even close! I mean superman was killed by doomsday who does nothing special but charge tackles and punches which you see coming! Goku’s arsenal of attacks are unmatched instant transmission/insta-kamehameha, spirit bomb, solar flares ki blast barrage! I think goku would be superman only using kaioken x’s 2 at max!
Goku is the most powerful fictional character in the whole world Goku has to potential to become infinitely strong he has more attacks and if I bet if there would have been a saga after GT(AF does not count fan made AF was made up by shonen jump magazine as an April Fools thats why its called AF)he would have learned loads more and learned more levels superman will never beat goku no chance superman could only wish now don’t get me wrong yes superman is powerful but superman nor the whole justice league and all there side kicks could beat goku there will never be a DC or a Marvel hero that could ever beat goku to many moves, loads of energy, possibly an infinite number of transformation he could learn no chance for superman or any other hero for that matter goku wins hands down thank you Akira Toriyama for the most powerful fictional character in history.
O to add on one more thing give superman this mother box that I have just read up on yea again it does make superman more of a bad ass but still goku would win superman could have all the mother boxes in existence and would still lose and hell just for the fun of it lets put all the yellow suns that exist together and put superman and goku on it again with superman wearing all the mother boxes in existence and guess what goku still win and with out changing he still be in his normal state with his power level as low as he could put it and win I done my research just to be fair on the mother box in other words I read comic books and I used wiki for more info that I may have missed just to fill in blanks again thank you Akira Toriyama for the most powerful fictional character in history.
goku would win. why? he has no limit to his streangth. superman is only so strong. Even if superman would beat goku, when he healed back up he’d be A LOT more stronger and able to finish off superman like a little bitch
not even a contest. Krillin can probably beat superman. hell Raditz stands a chance. that should be the debate. Goku wouldn’t even have to transform to beat superman.
i know alot about both of these characters, and goku can get energy from the sun and also beings from all over the fucking universe. and plus, bitch ass superman cant move at the speed of light but goku can with his instant transmission. this shouldnt even be a discussion. and plus, broly would fuck both of them up cause his powers unlimited. the discussion should be…Broly vs Hulk. they both have unlimited powers so that’d be a really good fight, and technically goku is kind of a god now because he is immortal now because of the dragonball are inside him. suck on dem dragon balls bitches
ok, if superman threatened goku (for whatever reason) goku would feel his power but wouldn’t underestimate him because thats how he is. then when superman threw the first punch goku would put up a finger and stop it no problem. after that superman would go into a punching frenzy while goku used his finger to block them all easily (like he did against trunks’ sword). superman would get pissed and shoot his eye lasers at goku while goku sat there, took it, and emerged from the smoke without so much as a fringed hair. superman would then be in awe as goku instantly and effortlessly slammed supermans face with his fist, put a knee 3 feet into superman’s gut, and elbowed supes’ back sending him spiraling to the ground. while superman was falling, goku would charge up a kamehameha wave and completely disentigrate superman before he hit the ground. game, set, and match. Goku is champ for all eternity.
I love both characters GREATLY, especially Superman. However just because that is the circumstance it would illogical to assume that I am be biased towards Superman. I’ll do my best with the knowledge of the two characters that I have to try to conclude a reasonable decision. Arguably,Goku is the better fighter in terms of his technique and skill. Also similar to the various versions of Goku there are also various versions of Superman, some being much more powerful than the others. From my understanding Goku has been able to accomplish amazing feats especially in his highest, most powerful form. This goes for Superman as well. The most powerful known form of Superman is Superman Prime (Gold Superman) which is the original Superman who ventures off into the sun and traveled to many different places and I quote “fighting battles unimaginable.” (please correct me if I’m wrong). In terms of weakness Im sure we are aware of Superman;s however Goku’s seems to be overlooked and left unstated. Indeed it has been proven the higher stage goes into the powerful he gets, however he can only sustain that power for a limited amount of time, and once it is gone he is weakened.
Now his powers are never mentioned ,but he is the head of the Superman Dynasty. I’m my opinion both characters have a chance of beating one another under various circumstances. The issue I’m finding most common among the comments is that people tend to uses phrases such as “Super-saiyan” and “Super-man” in which they are attempting to prove that a Saiyan is greater than a man, super or not. Even though it is true that a Saiyan is more powerful than a human, the faultiness here is that Superman is not a man but a Krytontian. It is very probable that Kryptonians would give the Saiyans a challenge. Also in term of energy usage the original Superman most commonly uses his heat vision which has been powerful enough to heat the entire planet Earth and Goku’s Kamahamaha to destroy an entire planet. To sum it all up, both characters are extremely powerful, it’s just ,however, people tend to undermine Superman’s abilities. This is only the tip of the iceberg for both characters.
It is quite obvious that many of you are misinformed, especially making claims such as Goku being the most powerful character ever created. Unless you have studied all of Superman’s or any other fictional characters capabilities in the comics or other media (which would be a very difficult task) your argument will always lack plausibility. You have to me self-aware of your own biased which in itself is very challenging to change.
I wish there was a debate here, but simply, there isn’t. If Goku fought superman with the sun bearing down on them Goku would still easily win. Before going super saiyan, there might be a fight, but as soon as he gets to super saiyan 1, superman is immediately and completely outclassed. At least as a super saiyan, and probably without, Goku is faster and stronger. Without any kind of trick exploiting superman’s weaknesses, without sensu beans, without merely exploding the planet and teleporting away, Goku could take out the entire Justice league without them even seeing him, and again likely without having to go super saiyan.
Where is your proof? Im not saying that it isn’t possible for Goku to beat Superman, but what proof do you have. Also, it is clear that you have some knowledge of Goku’s abilities however, informed are you when it comes to Superman? Honestly, I wish people would stop being so biased.
I. SSJ3 vs current Superman
- First, we have to establish that the fight will be between SSJ3 vs Superman as he currently is. Dragonball Online, a new MMORPG has a new storyline that completely disregards the events of DBGT. DBGT’s storyline was done entirely by the studio that animated DBZ whereas creator Akira Toriyama has personally supervised the MMORPG’s storyline. That means that DB Online should be treated as the canonical continuation of DBZ and not DBGT. That means that all events of DBGT should be disregarded, including the existence of an SSJ4 transformation. And just to add, all movie events and filler material that does not show up in the original source material–the manga–are also considered non-canon, because they create many plotholes.
If the pro-Goku side wishes to use a non-canon version of Goku (SSJ4 Goku), then it’s just fair to use Superman One Million, who has gained a whole slew of superpowers, such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, control over reality, time, space, magic, etc., and is also in possession of the universe’s most powerful weapon. To name a few. So believe me when I say that it’s also in your best interest to just stick to SSJ3 Goku, okay?
As for which version of Superman to use, the way I see it, we can either use “pre-Crisis Superman” (that is, take both at their strongest), Superman as he currently is (basically take both at the end of their respective storylines), or Superman Prime (the only logical scenario in which we can have both fight and still take personality into consideration). The best one to use IMO is the current Superman, who is the weakest of the three anyway.
(Note that this was typed up maybe around 2006 or so, and I don’t really read that much of DC to keep up with how Superman is now, so there may be some discrepancies due to changes that has occurred between now and then.)
The thing is though, the current Superman, after sundipping, can become nearly as strong as he was pre-Crisis, so for convenience’s sake, I’ll be posting scans of current Superman, Superboy-Prime, and pre-Crisis to support my argument. Here we go.
II. Physical Strength
- Goku: Vegeta trained at 300x Earth’s gravity during the Androids saga. (IIRC, we don’t have any real basis for their strength after that, but this should suffice.) Assuming that Vegeta weighs 300 pounds, that means he’s able to lift ~90,000 pounds during the Androids saga. Goku is much stronger than Vegeta and gets even stronger in the next sagas (especially after he transforms to SSJ3), so we’ll say that he can lift MUCH more than that by the end of DBZ. Someone has informed me that Goku in his normal state can only lift 40 tons at the end of DBZ and struggles to lift a mountain. (I don’t have a scan to go with this fact, but it doesn’t matter.)
- Superman: Superman can augment his super strength to near infinite levels, at which point, he can literally move planets from one solar system to another barehanded. http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superboytowingplanets1400026uv.jpg
Now using Earth (which he has moved before here: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg with only three quarters of his strength) as our basis, that means he can move an object that weighs 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds across solar systems. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_weight.html (The Earth’s mass is 13,160,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds if you want to calculate things yourself).
It’s a stretch to assume that Goku goes from lifting ~90,000 lbs. to being able to move 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. between the Cell saga to his end-DBZ SSJ3 transformation.
Here’s a good clue why: neither Goku nor his enemies ever show themselves to have the strength to move planets all throughout DBZ through physical means alone. In fact, all efforts to destroy a planet in DBZ were done through a ki attack, not by physical means and in DBZ, ki attacks >>>> physical strength.
III. Speed
- Goku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pY1GLtNUc&feature=related shows that SSJ Gotenks (who is stronger than SSJ Goku) gets clocked to be much slower than light speed. (Ignore the portion that uses the anime as basis and go straight to the manga scan.) That makes Instant Transmission Goku’s fastest way of moving from one place to another and keep in mind that he needs a ki lock to use it, which does take a very tiny amount of time. And when facing someone with Superman’s speed, that tiny amount of time is a very wide window. Aside from that, Goku is, at his base, slower than lightspeed.
- http://i28.tinypic.com/14jxphl.jpg shows Superman flying from Earth to Saturn in 4 minutes. Light takes 17 minutes to reach Saturn, so that alone proves that Superman as he currently is, can fly four times faster than the speed of light. Pre-Crisis Superman would then put Goku to shame as he can move fast enough to break the time barrier (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/stuffoffiction/Comicbooks/Additional/?action=view¤t=SupermansGreatestFeats3.jpg) which means that he can simply fly Goku to the beginning of time (which he’s done to Brainiac, but I have no scan of that), when there are no planets, so Goku cannot survive.
Now, some people claim that Superman does not use his speed when he fights. That’s not true. http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=708yd.png http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwvssupesheatvisionta3.jpg http://i32.tinypic.com/28bgps0.jpg
Supes blitzes a lot of his opponents, so that argument against him is flawed.
Also, Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, so ki attacks are hypothetically useless. http://i31.tinypic.com/35n6jab.jpg
IV. Durability
- Goku can’t survive in space.
- Superman can survive in space.
(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THIS ENTIRE POST.) Goku’s inability to survive in outer space is a major disadvantage that will most likely be the deciding factor of this match. Now some people will point out that Freeza had that same advantage, but I want to point out the actual results of the match. Freeza survived the battle and Goku would’ve died were it not for that space pod. The only reason Goku won was because of sheer dumb luck and Freeza’s arrogance. Superman does not have that same failing as Freeza and luck is disregarded in hypothetical matches. That means that since this is a hypothetical battle, this fact alone points towards Superman ultimately winning the fight.
Both are powerful enough to destroy a planet. If the fight gets so destructive that the planet they’re fighting on gets destroyed, Goku will be the one most likely to suffer (unless he uses Instant Transmission and if this is how the scenario plays out, it just proves that the best Goku can pull is a stalemate). Also, (I’m not sure if Superman still has this ability, so someone correct me if I’m wrong,) AFAIK, Superman (like Flash) can vibrate his molecules fast enough to become intangible, which means that Goku can’t even hit him.
Also, Goku’s inability to follow Superman to space is a major drawback. Superman could fly out into space and use his telescopic vision to see where Goku is and use his heat vision, which is strong enough to fix a hole in the cosmos http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2383/supes2po7.jpg to burn a hole on Goku’s head.
And just for laughs, Pre-Crisis Supes could even fly out and simply sneeze http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9543/supersneezeae9og9.jpg and Goku will be gone. Alternatively, he could also throw an object weighing trillions of tons http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg smack into Goku’s face, or push/pull the planet Goku’s on into the sun. (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg)
Now another thing to point out is the question of whether or not Superman can survive Goku’s ki attacks. As I showed earlier, Superman is fast enough to dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams, so he is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, thus making this argument irrelevant. In the event that an attack does connect though, Superman has flown through a field of kryptonite and then through a red sun before (both of which drain his powers) and still survived. http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4568/scan00197tnwo9.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1107/scan00228qdaj6.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6425/scan00231lkoc2.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1319/scan00246wmrh2.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3958/scan00253nfnx3.jpg
So it all depends on what is more destructive, a red sun, or Goku’s ki attack. In any case, Superman should be able to dodge the attack, so withstanding it is irrelevant. (And yes, the guy he’s fighting is the same one who towed planets using chains and threw an object that weighs trillions of tons to a distance billions of lightyears away.)
Oh, and FYI, the spirit bomb wouldn’t work on Superman because he’s not evil.
V. Personality
- There’s been arguments that Superman wouldn’t use his speed in a fight or that he would hold back because he’s a “boy scout.” Here’s proof that that is not true as well. http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce54gr.jpg http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce61ab.jpg http://returntocomics.typepad.com/photos/misc/superman_kills_hbomb.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/heat_vision1.jpg
Again, Superman has blitzed (at lightspeed) many of his opponents before.
Besides, if we take personality into account, Goku isn’t likely to use kryptonite against Superman. (He gave Cell a senzu bean for crying out loud.)
Ultimately, if you take personality into account, Superman and Goku wouldn’t kill each other, so there’s no real way this match can be carried out since neither one will go all out. That is why personality should be ignored in hypothetical battles and assume that they are “bloodlusted.” (The only fair plausible scenario in which personality can be taken into account is Superman-Prime vs Goku.)
But if we assume that they‘re bloodlusted, then what’s to stop Superman from simply flying Goku straight into the sun or out into the universe? (Which he’s done repeatedly to opponents.)
VI. Weaknesses
- Goku: Goku cannot sustain his SSJ3 transformation for very long, meaning that he can only fight at his peak in a very short amount of time. Aside from that, his only weaknesses are the limits to his strength, speed, and durability, and the aforementioned inability to survive in outer space. (http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4240/4211014db.gif)
- Superman: Superman has a very well-known weakness to kryptonite. But in his storyline, Superman has gathered almost all of them and threw them into the sun, and gave the remaining pieces to Batman. That means that for the sake of this argument, there is no kryptonite that can be used against Superman.
Besides, Superman can still hold his own even after being weakened. (See my earlier scan of Superman flying through a field of kryptonite, then through a red sun, all the while carrying Superboy-Prime, who is much stronger than he is.)
Of course, Superman is also susceptible to magic and mind control, but Goku isn’t magic and he can’t control minds either.
VIII. Martial Arts Skills
- Superman has had some training, but Goku is definitely the superior martial artist of the two. This advantage, however, will not help him overcome his other shortcomings.
IX. Wizard’s Versus Battle
- Now, some will point out that Wizard did a take on this match and published that Goku would be the winner. First of all, it should be noted that that match was not canon. Wizard does those hypothetical matches a lot and if they were canon, then that would mean that a lot of fictional characters would be dead in their respective universes. It’s just a take by other writers, so it’s not canon, and sometimes it can be completely incorrect.
If you read that particular versus battle, you’ll see that they use a LOT of completely wrong information. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg
The most obvious inconsistensies are:
1. Goku being able to fight in space.
2. Superman not surviving a punch that would put him in collision with Earth’s surface. (He’s been punched though the Earth and shrugged it off.)
3. Some unheard of “particle flux” that results from Goku’s IT.
4. Goku at his base form being strong enough to land a heavy blow on Supes.
So not only was that versus match not canon, it was completely filled with false information. I mean, even the premise is ridiculous. Eighth dragonball? Not only is Goku familiar enough with the dragonballs to know that that information is false, he also knows Kami/Piccolo/Dende and would’ve simply gone to them and asked them to confirm it before trusting someone who he most likely sensed to have an evil intention.
X. Faster than a speeding bullet…
- Most people seem to forget that there are various incarnations of Superman and are completely biased in choosing which one to pit against Goku in this argument. There’s absolutely no reason to go with Superman from the movies or a past, weaker version of him other than to sway the argument to Goku’s favor. To use a non-canon or an outdated incarnation of Superman would be as unfairly biased as say, pitting DB Goku against pre-Crisis Superman.
That said, a lot of people seem to have very little knowledge of Superman. “Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” has not been true for over half a century now. I mean, the guy can fly out to space. That just goes to show that “able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” is definitely an outdated understatement. So, if you’re going to use arguments against Superman, please make sure that it is up to date and accurate. (I’m being a bit of hypocrite here since I have admitted that this argument is a couple of years old, but AFAIK, there hasn‘t been that much changes between then and now anyway.)
The same goes for Goku. Know the difference between filler and canon material and stick to using what is canon.
XI. You’re a Superman fanboy.
- I’m adding this here because this is the most common illogical argument used against me.
I am, with all honesty, not a fan of DC. And I don’t even like Superman all that much. The reasons why I’ve grown to dislike Superman though (being way too overpowered) are the very reasons why I believe he would win against Goku. That said, I like Goku better as a character overall.
Anyway, please refrain from using this logic against me and focus on the points laid out above.
To further add to my proof that I am not supporting Superman out of fanboyism, I should point out that I don’t believe that Superman is unbeatable. In fact, I think there is another DBZ character capable of defeating Superman. I believe that any incarnation of Buu should be able to accomplish that feat, but it would depend on the scenario.
So you might ask, why then, do I believe that Buu can defeat Superman but Goku, who defeated Buu, can’t? Simple. Buu won’t win by overpowering Superman, but by absorbing him, which Goku obviously can’t do. This is where the “scenario” part plays in. If Superman is aware of Buu’s absorption technique, then his super speed, long range heat beams, and heightened senses should be enough to play a good keep-away game and ultimately destroy Buu. However, if Superman is unaware of this ability, Buu can easily take him by surprise and absorb him. And since Superman is susceptible to magic and Buu was created by magic, it’s logical to assume that Superman would get absorbed easily.
So there you have it. Superman wins this one easily due to numerous advantages.
AIGHT, LET ME SAY I KNOW BOTH, AND THERE AINT NO CHANCE IN HELL SUPERMAN COULD WIN THAT FIGHT. THERE BOTH ALIENS. SUPERMAN HAS TO MANY WEAKNESSES. GOKU HAD 1 BUT THATS GONE AND THATS HIS TAIL. GOKU IS LIKE A SUPERMAN FOR KRYPTONIANS. THE DUDE GETS STRONGER AFTER A FIGHT OR NEAR DEATH EXPERIANCE. SUPERMAN COULDNT EVEN BEAT TIEN NOR PICCOLLO. SUPERMAN HAS ALL KINDS OF COLORED KRYPONITE AS HIS WEAKNESS EVEN THOUGH GOKU WOULDNT NEED IT. THE YELLOW SUN COULD B BLOCKED EVEN THOUGH GOKU DOESNT NEED THAT EITHER TO DEFEAT HIM. SUPERMAN HAS NO MARTIAL ARTS. NOR THE SPEED THAT MOST OF THESE DBZ CHARACTERS GOT. NOT EVEN THE TYPE OF POWER. SUPERMAN IS B4 TIME OF DBZ. HE’S LIMITED. HE HAS AMAZIN ABILITIES BUT NOT AS AMAZING AS ANY DBZ CHARACTERS HAVE. GOKU DOESNT EVEN NEED A SENZU BEEN OR NOTHIN 4 THIS FIGHT AND ALL U NEED IS A FEW OF THE DBZ CHARACTERS TO TAKE OUT EVERY SINGLE DC CHARACTER OUT. EVEN MARVEL WOOPED DCS ASS. AND DBZ CAN TAKE CARE OF BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME. DBZ IS ON SOME OTHER SHIT THAT NONE OF THEM CAN COMPARE. THEY MADE THEM PRACTICALLY INVINSIBLE U WOULD NEED ANOTHER DBZ CHARACTER TO FINISH THEM OFF
@A Logical Answer: I FEEL U ON THAT. BUT GOLD SUPERMAN OR WUTEVER THERES JUS NO WAY SUPERMAN HAS A CHANCE TO BEAT GOKU. AND WUTS FUNNY IS BOUT THEM FIGHTIN EACH OTHER. IT JUS DONT SEEM RIGHT THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD REASON. AND YEA FOR THE FACT OF COMPARIN THEM WITH POWER OF DISTRUCTION. THEY DO HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT BACK ROUNDS BOUT SUPERMAN BUT WHICH 1 R THEY TRYNA PUT OUT AGAINST GOKU. AND I WOULD LIKE TO C A TV SHOW OF THE MOST POWERFULL SUPERMAN. CAUSE THE THINGS U SEE IN COMICS AND IF THEY WERE TO PUT IT ON TV. I DONT C SUPERMAN EVEN STILL NOT COMPARIN TO GOKU. ESPECIALY SINCE GOKU HAS NO WEAKNESS. AND IF HIS POWER WAS TO “SOME HOW FADE” WHEN FIGHTIN SUPERMAN. THEN THAT B ON GOKU. BUT THATS IS CRAZY I DONT C IT HAPPININ RIGHT AWAY AND EVEN BY THE TIME HE FEELS LIKE HES GETTIN WEAK GOKU WOULD CANCEL HIM OUT. THERES SO MANY STAGES THAT GOKU GOES UP IN. AND HONESTLY I DONT EVEN SEE HIM EVEN USIN ANY SUPER SAIYEN STAGES. I’LL B SUPRISE IF HE USES 1. AND IT BE A BORIN FIGHT. GOKU PROLLY WONT EVEN USE KAIOKEN 1. IM SURE HE MIGHT JUS POWER UP REGURELY. BUT U GOT TO REALIZE HE HAS THE KAIOKEN STAGES TOO. GOKU HAS CRAZY ABILITIES THEY MADE HIM IN-HUMANLY INSANE…. NAW MATTER OF FACT IN-ALIEN INSANE. THEYED WORSHIP HIM ON KRYPTON
TWICE THE ENERGY, NOTHIN BUT ENERGY. ALL THESE THINGS WONT MATTER IN THE FIGHT WITH GOKU HE CAN END IT IN A QUICK SECOND IF HE WANTED TO. I HAVENT SEEN NOT 1 CHARACTER THAT COULD B POWERFUL THEN GOKU. AND EVEN THOUGH HE WAS INVICIBLE TO BEGIN WITH. THE LAST SHOW HE FUSED WITH THE DRAGON BALLS AND THATS LIKE TO SCARY TO EVEN AMAGIN THE POWER HE HAS NOW. LIKE I SAID KRYPTON WOULD B WORSHIPPIN HIM LIKE EARTH WOULD WORSHIP…. AIT EARTH WOULD WORSHIP GOKU TO. SUPERMAN PROLLY RETIRE FROM SAVIN THE WORLD IF HE KNEW OR IF THERE WAS ANY TYPE OF HERO LIKE THAT OUT THERE OR MAYBE HE’D B ANOTHER BATMAN COMPARED TO HIM. SUPERMAN WOULD B PUT IN HIS PLACE TO POINT WHERE HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE IN GOKU TO SAVE WORLDS
BUT IF ANYTHING ALL THEY R GONNA DO IS LIMIT GOKU KNOWIN DAMN WELL THERE AINT NO CHANCE IN HELL SUPERMAN COULD BEAT HIM BLUE OR RED AINT FUCKIN WITH GOLD
Hi Matchstckgmr again now I had to do more research after hearing there are many kinds of superman or men which ever I still must say that goku would win I do have info on both Goku and Superman there powers are great they have many forms styles and attacks but till this day I belive goku can would and will beat superman he is not strong enough to put up a good fight I done enough reading and research to back up my info if you wish ask and I will give you good reasons why some will be simple minded others will be hard facts superman is just all about blunt force no real fighting style ether I mean batman atleast knows martal arts true batman is human but he has real fighting skill unlike superman yes due to the fact that superman is super strong and has all his other powers he only uses blunt force no real plan if you ask me just hit as hard as I can and try harder than that if it does not work goku has way more attacks he has like 5 different martal arts masters that he has learned under so he knows 5 different ways of fighting then if thats the case superman has many weaknesses clearly pointed out goku only had one and it does not bother him anymore its his tail he got it chopped off when he was young but got it back in gt to go to super sayian 4 but as a sayian grows stronger they lose that weakness even if they have a tail vageta pointed this out and goku can stay in his forms for as long as he wants he only gets on a time limit when he is beaten to near death or just uses alot of energy I have seen this many times the only form he had a time limit in was super sayian 3 and the only reason he had that was cause of 2 to 3 reasons maybe more if I remember right he said he has not had much time to practice that form for one so he had to use loads of energy to change into it next he needed a tail to handle all the energy that came with the form I belive that the tail on a sayian has one more Purpose for being there and thats to hava a place to put all there extra energy that can’t be put into there body, hair, and aura plus the first time he used super sayian 3 that we seen was on earth fighting fat buu while he was dead he had a time limit to be on earth 24 hours and going super sayian 3 made him have less time to stay from what I have seen sayian grow stronger from near death and being healed to full again and seeing all the transformations that they have gained I belive that there may be no limit to how many super sayian levels there are for all we know there could be a super sayian 50,000 or more and they learn new powers all the time and learn how to use 2 of there powers together and some can fuse together there are 2 different ways to fuse in dbz if you count how nameks do it then 3 anyways enough about dbz now for superman he has changed alot over the years but yes as somebody pointed out his most powerful form is the gold superman form I am not sure if that is the right name form for it but goku can beat it superman has a hard time beating aliens and some super bad guys too and goku is a alien not human yes he was raised on earth and and his first 2 fighting teachers were human but he is still and alien and a strong one at that and Kryptony people are like humans when on there home planet from my understanding sayians always have been strong from day one no need for any sun or anything to make them strong unless you count there ape form then yes they need the moon unless you think about the move the goku’s father made that puts out the same energy as the moon vagita was the first person we seen use it but goku’s father made it anyways here is a list of supermans powers known powers that is Superhuman strength, speed, stamina, invulnerability, senses, intelligence, regeneration, longevity, super breath, heat vision, x-ray vision, microscopic vision, telescopic vision, and flight that is all of supermans powers listed that are known most of them are not attacks ether I might add now here are goku’s powers Kamehameha, warp or instantramission kamehameha, sprit bomb and he has 3 or 4 different versions of that, solar flare, instantranmission, 10x kamehameha, Super Kamehameha, energy blast, kai o ken, super sayian 1 to 4, distructo disk, 4 or 5 different styles of martal arts, able to grow stronger from near death moments, fusion, explosive wave, blow back people with a small blast of energy from his hands, super strength, can go to speed of light, longevity, stamina, and invulnerablity goku can travel between life and death and to other planets in seconds superman only has 3 of the things that I listed for goku all in all goku will always win is goku the most powerful fictional character I think so but like anybody else I could be wrong but goku will win against superman no if and or but about it I backed my facts up if you can prove me wrong bring you own facts to the table and we will stack them up to see who would win and if you prove me wrong I will admit to it but only if you do.
A point-by-point summary of why Superman would easily trounce Goku says:
I. SSJ3 vs current Superman
- First, we have to establish that the fight will be between SSJ3 vs Superman as he currently is. Dragonball Online, a new MMORPG has a new storyline that completely disregards the events of DBGT. DBGT’s storyline was done entirely by the studio that animated DBZ whereas creator Akira Toriyama has personally supervised the MMORPG’s storyline. That means that DB Online should be treated as the canonical continuation of DBZ and not DBGT. That means that all events of DBGT should be disregarded, including the existence of an SSJ4 transformation. And just to add, all movie events and filler material that does not show up in the original source material–the manga–are also considered non-canon, because they create many plotholes.
If the pro-Goku side wishes to use a non-canon version of Goku (SSJ4 Goku), then it’s just fair to use Superman One Million, who has gained a whole slew of superpowers, such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, control over reality, time, space, magic, etc., and is also in possession of the universe’s most powerful weapon. To name a few. So believe me when I say that it’s also in your best interest to just stick to SSJ3 Goku, okay?
As for which version of Superman to use, the way I see it, we can either use “pre-Crisis Superman” (that is, take both at their strongest), Superman as he currently is (basically take both at the end of their respective storylines), or Superman Prime (the only logical scenario in which we can have both fight and still take personality into consideration). The best one to use IMO is the current Superman, who is the weakest of the three anyway.
(Note that this was typed up maybe around 2006 or so, and I don’t really read that much of DC to keep up with how Superman is now, so there may be some discrepancies due to changes that has occurred between now and then.)
The thing is though, the current Superman, after sundipping, can become nearly as strong as he was pre-Crisis, so for convenience’s sake, I’ll be posting scans of current Superman, Superboy-Prime, and pre-Crisis to support my argument. Here we go.
II. Physical Strength
- Goku: Vegeta trained at 300x Earth’s gravity during the Androids saga. (IIRC, we don’t have any real basis for their strength after that, but this should suffice.) Assuming that Vegeta weighs 300 pounds, that means he’s able to lift ~90,000 pounds during the Androids saga. Goku is much stronger than Vegeta and gets even stronger in the next sagas (especially after he transforms to SSJ3), so we’ll say that he can lift MUCH more than that by the end of DBZ. Someone has informed me that Goku in his normal state can only lift 40 tons at the end of DBZ and struggles to lift a mountain. (I don’t have a scan to go with this fact, but it doesn’t matter.)
- Superman: Superman can augment his super strength to near infinite levels, at which point, he can literally move planets from one solar system to another barehanded. http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superboytowingplanets1400026uv.jpg
Now using Earth (which he has moved before here: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg with only three quarters of his strength) as our basis, that means he can move an object that weighs 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds across solar systems. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_weight.html (The Earth’s mass is 13,160,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds if you want to calculate things yourself).
It’s a stretch to assume that Goku goes from lifting ~90,000 lbs. to being able to move 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. between the Cell saga to his end-DBZ SSJ3 transformation.
Here’s a good clue why: neither Goku nor his enemies ever show themselves to have the strength to move planets all throughout DBZ through physical means alone. In fact, all efforts to destroy a planet in DBZ were done through a ki attack, not by physical means and in DBZ, ki attacks >>>> physical strength.
III. Speed
- Goku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pY1GLtNUc&feature=related shows that SSJ Gotenks (who is stronger than SSJ Goku) gets clocked to be much slower than light speed. (Ignore the portion that uses the anime as basis and go straight to the manga scan.) That makes Instant Transmission Goku’s fastest way of moving from one place to another and keep in mind that he needs a ki lock to use it, which does take a very tiny amount of time. And when facing someone with Superman’s speed, that tiny amount of time is a very wide window. Aside from that, Goku is, at his base, slower than lightspeed.
- http://i28.tinypic.com/14jxphl.jpg shows Superman flying from Earth to Saturn in 4 minutes. Light takes 17 minutes to reach Saturn, so that alone proves that Superman as he currently is, can fly four times faster than the speed of light. Pre-Crisis Superman would then put Goku to shame as he can move fast enough to break the time barrier (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/stuffoffiction/Comicbooks/Additional/?action=view¤t=SupermansGreatestFeats3.jpg) which means that he can simply fly Goku to the beginning of time (which he’s done to Brainiac, but I have no scan of that), when there are no planets, so Goku cannot survive.
Now, some people claim that Superman does not use his speed when he fights. That’s not true. http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=708yd.png http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwvssupesheatvisionta3.jpg http://i32.tinypic.com/28bgps0.jpg
Supes blitzes a lot of his opponents, so that argument against him is flawed.
Also, Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, so ki attacks are hypothetically useless. http://i31.tinypic.com/35n6jab.jpg
IV. Durability
- Goku can’t survive in space.
- Superman can survive in space.
(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THIS ENTIRE POST.) Goku’s inability to survive in outer space is a major disadvantage that will most likely be the deciding factor of this match. Now some people will point out that Freeza had that same advantage, but I want to point out the actual results of the match. Freeza survived the battle and Goku would’ve died were it not for that space pod. The only reason Goku won was because of sheer dumb luck and Freeza’s arrogance. Superman does not have that same failing as Freeza and luck is disregarded in hypothetical matches. That means that since this is a hypothetical battle, this fact alone points towards Superman ultimately winning the fight.
Both are powerful enough to destroy a planet. If the fight gets so destructive that the planet they’re fighting on gets destroyed, Goku will be the one most likely to suffer (unless he uses Instant Transmission and if this is how the scenario plays out, it just proves that the best Goku can pull is a stalemate). Also, (I’m not sure if Superman still has this ability, so someone correct me if I’m wrong,) AFAIK, Superman (like Flash) can vibrate his molecules fast enough to become intangible, which means that Goku can’t even hit him.
Also, Goku’s inability to follow Superman to space is a major drawback. Superman could fly out into space and use his telescopic vision to see where Goku is and use his heat vision, which is strong enough to fix a hole in the cosmos http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2383/supes2po7.jpg to burn a hole on Goku’s head.
And just for laughs, Pre-Crisis Supes could even fly out and simply sneeze http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9543/supersneezeae9og9.jpg and Goku will be gone. Alternatively, he could also throw an object weighing trillions of tons http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg smack into Goku’s face, or push/pull the planet Goku’s on into the sun. (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg)
Now another thing to point out is the question of whether or not Superman can survive Goku’s ki attacks. As I showed earlier, Superman is fast enough to dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams, so he is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, thus making this argument irrelevant. In the event that an attack does connect though, Superman has flown through a field of kryptonite and then through a red sun before (both of which drain his powers) and still survived. http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4568/scan00197tnwo9.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1107/scan00228qdaj6.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6425/scan00231lkoc2.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1319/scan00246wmrh2.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3958/scan00253nfnx3.jpg
So it all depends on what is more destructive, a red sun, or Goku’s ki attack. In any case, Superman should be able to dodge the attack, so withstanding it is irrelevant. (And yes, the guy he’s fighting is the same one who towed planets using chains and threw an object that weighs trillions of tons to a distance billions of lightyears away.)
Oh, and FYI, the spirit bomb wouldn’t work on Superman because he’s not evil.
V. Personality
- There’s been arguments that Superman wouldn’t use his speed in a fight or that he would hold back because he’s a “boy scout.” Here’s proof that that is not true as well. http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce54gr.jpg http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce61ab.jpg http://returntocomics.typepad.com/photos/misc/superman_kills_hbomb.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/heat_vision1.jpg
Again, Superman has blitzed (at lightspeed) many of his opponents before.
Besides, if we take personality into account, Goku isn’t likely to use kryptonite against Superman. (He gave Cell a senzu bean for crying out loud.)
Ultimately, if you take personality into account, Superman and Goku wouldn’t kill each other, so there’s no real way this match can be carried out since neither one will go all out. That is why personality should be ignored in hypothetical battles and assume that they are “bloodlusted.” (The only fair plausible scenario in which personality can be taken into account is Superman-Prime vs Goku.)
But if we assume that they‘re bloodlusted, then what’s to stop Superman from simply flying Goku straight into the sun or out into the universe? (Which he’s done repeatedly to opponents.)
VI. Weaknesses
- Goku: Goku cannot sustain his SSJ3 transformation for very long, meaning that he can only fight at his peak in a very short amount of time. Aside from that, his only weaknesses are the limits to his strength, speed, and durability, and the aforementioned inability to survive in outer space. (http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4240/4211014db.gif)
- Superman: Superman has a very well-known weakness to kryptonite. But in his storyline, Superman has gathered almost all of them and threw them into the sun, and gave the remaining pieces to Batman. That means that for the sake of this argument, there is no kryptonite that can be used against Superman.
Besides, Superman can still hold his own even after being weakened. (See my earlier scan of Superman flying through a field of kryptonite, then through a red sun, all the while carrying Superboy-Prime, who is much stronger than he is.)
Of course, Superman is also susceptible to magic and mind control, but Goku isn’t magic and he can’t control minds either.
VIII. Martial Arts Skills
- Superman has had some training, but Goku is definitely the superior martial artist of the two. This advantage, however, will not help him overcome his other shortcomings.
IX. Wizard’s Versus Battle
- Now, some will point out that Wizard did a take on this match and published that Goku would be the winner. First of all, it should be noted that that match was not canon. Wizard does those hypothetical matches a lot and if they were canon, then that would mean that a lot of fictional characters would be dead in their respective universes. It’s just a take by other writers, so it’s not canon, and sometimes it can be completely incorrect.
If you read that particular versus battle, you’ll see that they use a LOT of completely wrong information. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg
The most obvious inconsistensies are:
1. Goku being able to fight in space.
2. Superman not surviving a punch that would put him in collision with Earth’s surface. (He’s been punched though the Earth and shrugged it off.)
3. Some unheard of “particle flux” that results from Goku’s IT.
4. Goku at his base form being strong enough to land a heavy blow on Supes.
So not only was that versus match not canon, it was completely filled with false information. I mean, even the premise is ridiculous. Eighth dragonball? Not only is Goku familiar enough with the dragonballs to know that that information is false, he also knows Kami/Piccolo/Dende and would’ve simply gone to them and asked them to confirm it before trusting someone who he most likely sensed to have an evil intention.
X. Faster than a speeding bullet…
- Most people seem to forget that there are various incarnations of Superman and are completely biased in choosing which one to pit against Goku in this argument. There’s absolutely no reason to go with Superman from the movies or a past, weaker version of him other than to sway the argument to Goku’s favor. To use a non-canon or an outdated incarnation of Superman would be as unfairly biased as say, pitting DB Goku against pre-Crisis Superman.
That said, a lot of people seem to have very little knowledge of Superman. “Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” has not been true for over half a century now. I mean, the guy can fly out to space. That just goes to show that “able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” is definitely an outdated understatement. So, if you’re going to use arguments against Superman, please make sure that it is up to date and accurate. (I’m being a bit of hypocrite here since I have admitted that this argument is a couple of years old, but AFAIK, there hasn‘t been that much changes between then and now anyway.)
The same goes for Goku. Know the difference between filler and canon material and stick to using what is canon.
XI. You’re a Superman fanboy.
- I’m adding this here because this is the most common illogical argument used against me.
I am, with all honesty, not a fan of DC. And I don’t even like Superman all that much. The reasons why I’ve grown to dislike Superman though (being way too overpowered) are the very reasons why I believe he would win against Goku. That said, I like Goku better as a character overall.
Anyway, please refrain from using this logic against me and focus on the points laid out above.
To further add to my proof that I am not supporting Superman out of fanboyism, I should point out that I don’t believe that Superman is unbeatable. In fact, I think there is another DBZ character capable of defeating Superman. I believe that any incarnation of Buu should be able to accomplish that feat, but it would depend on the scenario.
So you might ask, why then, do I believe that Buu can defeat Superman but Goku, who defeated Buu, can’t? Simple. Buu won’t win by overpowering Superman, but by absorbing him, which Goku obviously can’t do. This is where the “scenario” part plays in. If Superman is aware of Buu’s absorption technique, then his super speed, long range heat beams, and heightened senses should be enough to play a good keep-away game and ultimately destroy Buu. However, if Superman is unaware of this ability, Buu can easily take him by surprise and absorb him. And since Superman is susceptible to magic and Buu was created by magic, it’s logical to assume that Superman would get absorbed easily.
So there you have it. Superman wins this one easily due to numerous advantages.
A point-by-point summary of why Superman would easily trounce Goku says:
Well I hate to say it belive me I do and I did say I admit it if somebody proved me wrong but this guy saying superman could beat goku basied on his info I have to say proved me wrong but I like to add one more thing before shuting my mouth yes the man said that instantransmission does take time to use which is true and superman can go faster than light bassed on that info but who is to say that planet namkie which is not a real planet as far as we know lol is not as close as saturn who is to say it maybe as far out as pluto or past it for all we know it may be in another galixy how ever they did say its in the system but who know it did take 4 months for goku to get there on his space ship but it had taken him seconds to get to the new one with instantransmission which again maybe in another system I will stick by this I think goku is still faster and has way more skill in fighting I said it once and I will say it again superman has no fighting style just blunt force goku has martal arts thats all there is to if you can show me a real seen ether from a cartoon(a real one not fan made) or a comic(again real not fan made) of superman learning martal arts then ok he has goku beat on that but only if you can.
I belive superman can die just as easy as anybody else but only if you go to take what is needed to do it for a human like you and me it be as simple as hitting me with enough force to taking a weapon like a sword or a gun and finshing me off but for goku its basicly alot of power behind a blast of energy with superman I am not sure but I am sure that there is something besides cryptonite that can kill him I don’t know what it is but I am sure something can a weapon maybe a person of some sort I don’t know but if I find out I am posting it here first.
Goku using IT to go to a location three feet away would take the same amount of time as using IT to go to a location three million miles away. So it’s only really advantageous for covering VERY huge distances. It really doesn’t matter much in this fight because of the two, Superman is much better at fighting from a distance since he can go out into space and he has telescopic vision and super hearing. Goku would need to fight in the same distance he does in DBZ, in which case the distance is close enough that IT isn’t really much of a factor when fighting up close.
As for using IT for a hit-and-run tactic, remember that he needs a ki lock. Without that, he doesn’t even know which direction to go. (Remember, he had to pointed towards the direction of Namek and even then, it took him a while to sense their ki.) IT is only instant as it’s being used. To be able to use it for very long distances though, it would take a while. Also, he can’t really use it to follow Superman wherever he goes. If Superman flies out to space, Goku can’t IT to follow him there because Goku can’t survive in space.
On a side note, please use punctuations when you post. It’s much easier on the eyes if you do.
thanks to this I no longer watch cartoons or anime I don’t read comic books or read manga anime should have won this japanese cartoons have always been better and so have the people in them they have always been stronger but this just made me hate them anime should have won this fight not some crappy american cartoon there is a load of more art work taken into making anime than any american cartoon I have spend alot of time around art so I know what I am talking about and the storys in anime are alot better but now I hate both this sucks I pray that an anime cartoon will have a person in it that can beat any and all american comic book hero’s but untill then I will hate both sides but I will be watching for an anime with that person in it.
I would say its to close to Call because u all forget Superman’s body is virtually impenetrable other than Kryptonite but not evening Lightening can penetrate his skin and Goku’s Power is pure electrical energy and would really knock Superman around and it would real painful for him but it wont kill and also Superman has a advantage over Goku regarding his strength Superman can lift Mountains over his head without breaking a sweat he could crush Goku to death and not to mention if superman got a hold of Goku he can snap his neck with his fingers also Superman’s heat vision heat its as hot as the temperature of the sun and could easily fry Goku and one other thing no one really knows has fast Superman is it just says hes faster than bullets and if he can move so fast that he can move the earth backwards on its access reversing time then I believe hes faster than light so like I said it would be to close t call but I rather look at this differently they both believe in dong whats right and protecting others so I know they would make a Invincible team
look I used to think goku would win too but if you read higher up this guy put out every fact of why superman would win I hate the idea of it too but superman would win he gave fact after fact and detail after detail as to why superman would win so again I hate the idea of it but superman would win.
^ Thanks. You’re one of the only pro-Goku people I’ve seen out there who’s open-minded enough to actually read and consider the other argument and conceded to the facts. You automatically earn my respect there. =P
Also, that’s SUPERMAN* shrugging off a planet exploding in his face. I don’t know why I put Goku. lol
I am an open minded person but I am sure of this that there must be an anime with person in it stronger than goku and there must be a person stronger than superman in dc or marvel if not some other american comic book company
somebody said that buu could beat superman which is true basied on the the info that was said but I feel he failed to note one thing I have yet to see an attack that superman can use that is as big or as powerfull as goku’s spirt bomb thats what killed buu yes superman could play keep away but buu can survive in space and he like goku can use instantranmission but I have not see superaman use an attack that could just turn buu into dust so quick as goku’s sprit bomb superman’s heat vision is 2 small lazers coming from his eyes buu I think would tire out superman and take him as stated and then game over for superman so could goku win no but could buu yes now if somebody knows an attack that superman has I do not know that could turn buu into dust as fast as goku’s spirt bomb I am sorry in that case all of what I have said is not right and I did not have all of the info I needed to back up what I said.
you know i just had a thought some people do not want to count gt goku cause it was not really ever going to be made but thanks to a group of people asking if they could it did so then we got super sayian 4 now I think that if we do count gt then goku at the end of gt fused with the eternal dragon would make goku stronger than superman cause then this would mean that goku’s attacks and speed are all up to or past god like levels in other words infenet everything plus I would think that goku can and could use the dragons wish powers when ever he wants now thats just a thought but if we do not count gt then yes superman wins hands down but after laying back and thinking about this I do belive goku would win sorry if I am wrong I belive this also lets goku go past his limitations such as you know he can not survive in space well with the dragon he could but its just what I have been thinking on I don’t know why I am not try to say that goku wins no matter what but basied on what I see here I think this makes goku surpass superman in every way and in anyway again sorry if I am wrong but I feel this changes everything but if you all who are biased belive that I have left out something please correct me but please I do not want to hear stuff from people who are all superman and no goku or people who are all goku and no superman I want to hear from people that are both sides based on fact by fact info and nothing more.
I LIKE THEM BOTH BUT ITS GOKU WHO WOULD WIN. I WROTE EARLIER BOUT HIM AND THE DRAGON BALLS IF IT HAD TO COME DOWN TO IT. PLUS ITS MAGIC DRAGONBALLS AT THAT. THERES NO WAY SUPERMAN WOULD HAVE WON.
Matchstckgmr, I was the same guy who noted the thing about Buu. Superman would have no problem fighting from far away. His heat-vision isn’t exactly tiny. He can make it so it can engulf Buu.
And ANTHONY, read the posts above yours. I posted how everything about Superman “tops” Goku. Because he was the one that they made that powerful. Superman’s the one who would win no contest.
Paragon I noted that goku at the end of gt fused with the dragonballs would beat superman cause when he is fused with the dragonballs he can live forever fight in space has inf everything making goku super pass not only superman but god like levels plus even if we did not count the dragonballs fused with goku then if superman did not kill goku or let goku live then goku would go and train to learn a higher level of super sayian that would surly beat superman it may take goku for ever in a year but he would and I am sure of this find a level of super sayian that can beat superman and sorry about the superman heat vision comment but I never did see a picture of superman using his heat beam and it being super big you know.
Goku would win for plenty of reasons. His tail is not a factor since it got removed before GT and all of it’s failures. Goku could just Spirit Bomb Superman into nothingness. Superman may have superhuman powers but Goku is all around better. When it comes to speed, in order for superman to even come CLOSE to Goku’s speed he would need at least three Earth suns. He can’t just up and change the flow of his energy at will. I doubt Goku would even need to go Super Saiyan seeing as at the end of Z, his base form power passed that of his Super Saiyan when he first accessed it. Superman just remains the same strength as the years go by though he is a powerful being. I could also see Goku hitting Superman with the Dragon Fist and insta-ending the fight. I could go on for days about Superman’s powers but I doubt it would be enough to take someone who could destroy an entire planet with one finger. I don’t think Superman has that much power. Maybe he could flatten entire countries but Goku could just snap his fingers and rape the world. Point being, Goku would win because it’s been proven that no matter how much stronger the foe is, he could still find a way to surpass them and win. Whether it be base form Goku or Super Saiyan Goku, Superman stands no chance. I honestly even think Uub would put Superman under and I cannot stand Uub. I’m a Superman fan but this battle is not something he would want a part in simply because Goku is a monster in every sense of the word.
first off the guy that posted the facts about superman I don’t know who he is but I do give him this he did a great job on his research but he did not want to count gt basied on this one fact is that it did not show up in manga form like most anime do before becoming a anime and plus it was only supervised by akira not made it was made in his company but not made by him so he did not count super sayian 4 but to add on goku is passed super sayian 4 now that he is fused with the dragon balls so he is a god like levels or beyond now but the guy did post right on all his info about superman so would goku lose to superman if he was only in super sayian 3 yes but if we use goku at the end of gt fused with the dragon balls then superman loses hands down no form of superman could beat goku fused with dragonballs.
sorry to add on please stop fan boy on both sides and just take in the facts it pisses me off when I see somebody tell a goku fan boy or a superman fan boy to shut up or go suck a dick I only go based on the facts I am a goku fan boy but I state my facts first before I say anything be it this or something else.
listen I can sit here and talk all about goku but here is a site with any and all info on goku there is no info on what he is like after being fused with the dragon balls but I am sure he is loads more powerfull after it happenes http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Goku
here is all info on superman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman this is the number one place on the net I could find for any and all info on superman more info here at this site now if these places I have do not list any and all info on both superman and goku nothing will http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php
And how do you know that Goku fused with the dragon balls is immortal? For all we know, the magical properties are separate from him. Even if he was “immortal,” chances are, it’d only be immortal in the same sense that Shenron is. And remember, Demon King Piccolo was able to kill Shenron. So Goku could still die. And Shenron’s power was never able to exceed its creator. No proof that the dragon balls would empower Goku.
But the most important thing is to note that we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA if absorbing the dragon balls even increased Goku’s power. Pure speculation has no place in hypothetical battles. Also the same reason why I hate the whole, “if Goku could train more, he’d be able to reach new levels of Super Saiyan” argument. Pure speculation that goes against what we see in DBZ canon. SSJ3 is the pinnacle of his power. No more.
Also, the guy who’s calling me a fanboy, see Argument XI on my initial post. It’s just funny because I will always run into one of you guys. Apparently, anyone who uses sources to back up an argument that goes against yours is a fanboy. Should I post something more like, “lol Goku would win. Goku gots SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJ4, kamehameha, spirit bomb, and all Superman has is kryptonite weakness. One blast and Superman’s gone. I like Superman, but Goku would trounce him.” That seems to be the only argument I get from anyone pro-Goku. Nobody says why Superman’s abilities would fall short of Goku’s. They simply throw out random stuff about Goku and say, “see, Superman would lose!”
listen while I do not have info on if it does or does not increased goku’s power I belive it was said with out being said if you know what I mean just certain things point towards it I can’t say what all does but certain things that happened in the end of gt and in the one and only gt movie also had stuff that pointed at that and bare in mind demon king Piccolo did make it look like he did but the dragon was ok besides the dragon was stronger at the end of dbz it was able to grant 2 more wishes and on a plus goku is able to appear and reappear in random places when he is so this shows that he must have new found powers due to the dragonballs being fused with him the only reason I don’t list much on superman is cause I don’t know alot about him other than basic stuff you know but I do read info on him and compare him to goku who I do know alot about and I strongly belive that goku would win not because I am a goku fan boy but because I feel my facts back it up I respect anybody else belife and ideals on anything but I feel that my facts back up goku winning now if you belive I am wrong then thats ok you are entitled to say such things freedom of speech anyways I stand by this goku wins only because I feel my facts show he would win sorry to if I pissed you off that is not my goal on here today or any day my goal like you is to state my facts and back them up and say if ether goku or superman would win nothing more anyways sorry if I pissed you off I did not mean to piss off ether side be it the goku pro side or the superman pro side I am sorry thats all I can say
No, you can’t use what you think they implied. What if I said that my interpretation of Goku “reappearing” was that they were implying that Goku’s legend lives on, but he was still dead? You can’t use those things in an argument.
And it’s nice that you’re open-minded and all, but reading wall-of-text posts that doesn’t properly capitalize and punctuate is VERY annoying on the eyes. And I’m getting tired of repeatedly saying that too. So unless you change it, this would be the last time I reply to your posts. Don’t take any offense or anything–I’m not forcing you to change it (just advising you that nearly everyone on the internet hates reading posts like that because it’s hard to understand and can strain the eyes)–but just like you’re free to post however you want, I’m free to not read posts that I find difficult to read.
I understand that I only post like I do cause its a pain in the ass to properly capitalize and punctuate. Anyways sorry that your idea’s and my idea’s differ from on another how ever one thing I do know is if you take into one basic fact its this. As time and time again shows us Goku has always found away to get stronger and beat his enemy. Now I can understand you not wanting to count DBGT ok but that aside you can not deny that Goku has always found away to get stronger and beat his enemy right? Every time he had the only person he did not beat in a fight was cell. Now odds are if Akira did not deside to have cell blow himself up but to let Goku keep fighting Cell instead of puting Gohan in.
Goku would have got super saiyan 2 first and beat cell cause that how it always worked. See my point basied on that alone Goku would end up getting strong enough to beat Superman. Only because Goku makes it his number one goal to get stronger to beat an enemy if he is to strong to beat at the time. If not then in the middle of battle he uses some sort of now attack that would hurt Superman and kill him or Goku would go to a higher level of super sayian. Why?
Cause thats how it always works for Goku. I will admit I don’t have alot of info on Superman cause one I am not all that into american comics. I hate the animation that americans uses for the comics plus I don’t like any of the Marvel or DC super heros. Anime has much better story lines and heros in it and they do stuff that american heros don’t. I do have enough info of Superman in my head to say that I feel with the info I have put up will show that Superman would lose to Goku.
The other ways this could go Goku trains before he has to fight Superman cause he was warned of him coming. The other way Superman comes and fights Goku wins but does not kill Goku and Goku goes and trains and gets stronger and beats him. Thats how I see things working. I hope this is a much better post I hope I do not hear any problems with this one.
I also would like to add that Goku was alive at the end of DBZ. Goku got brought back when they were fighting Buu at the time Elder Kai gave his life to bring back Goku. Also as you know if you know anything about DBZ anybody that is dead has a halo over there head there for Goku is alive at the end of DBGT still. Cause the end of DBGT takes place 100 years later or more so he must live forever cause he would be in his 90′s at the end of DBGT and he still looked not even a day over 25 at best. He was turned into a kid again but he would still be in his 90′s so Goku can live forever and be forever young.
First of all, thank you for typing properly this time.
Second, I can’t believe you don’t see what’s wrong with your argument.
Basically, you’re saying, “Character X never lost a fight in his series, that must mean that he can win against anyone in ANY series. Even if it was God from the Bible, he’ll find a way to overpower him. He always does because he never loses in his series. Well, okay, he did lose once, but you know what, if the writer had written that differently, I’m sure he wouldn’t have.” Really. Think about that for a while.
Also, (again keep in mind that DBGT is non-canon) Piccolo DID kill Shenron. Kami just revived him. Even if Goku was “immortal” at the end of DBGT, it’s safe to assume that it would only be in the same sense as Shenron. He won’t die of old age, but can still be killed by others.
I am not saying Goku could kill God but Superman is no God and nether is Goku. But we have never seen Goku at the end of GT fight anybody. So who is to say he is or is not strong enough to beat Superman. Superman can lose just as easy as Goku could in a fight the way this would work out is. Superman comes to the world of DBZ and desides to fight Goku so in that sence Superman be the bad guy is Goku’s world.
So Goku would win the fight cause thats how it plays out in his world. But this also means if Goku goes to Superman’s world Superman wins cause its his world and thats how is plays out plus Superman has died many times in his world of DC. Goku has died only one time in his world I say again 1 time not 2 not 3 hell not even 100 but 1. Superman has died that I know of 3 times and some how ether got back to life or got put in some machine and got fixed or they just let him die and that ended that version of Superman. There has only been 1 version of Goku and while DBGT should have happened it did and i say we count it cause it was made and Akria did supervise it but Akria also did supervise DBZ Online and you want to count that so I say we count DBGT.
DBZ Online was supervised by Akria I seen it listed that is was only supervised not made. So there four DBGT should count.
Goku will flog the crap out of superman goku’s faster stronger he’s just 10 times better and if he was ssj4 he would destroy superman in a blink of an eye
Jye please read the guy that posted info on superman before stating you thoughts on goku or superman winning thank you. I belive goku would win but a guy I am currently speaking too belives that superman would win.
“I am not saying Goku could kill God but Superman is no God and nether is Goku.”
^ You missed the whole point of that. I’m saying that claiming that “Goku could beat anyone if he keeps training” is the same as the whole “Batman could beat anybody with prep time.”
Look at it from their perspective. Batman has been able to beat anybody–even those who far outclass him–if he has the time to prepare (he gets “crazy prepared” they say), therefore if he has to face ANYBODY (even Goku) he can beat them as long as he has prep time.
Or even take someone like (I’m just going for a normal human this time) Jackie Chan and his team from Jackie Chan Adventures. They’ve been able to beat anybody in their show as long as Uncle has time to research. Therefore, Jackie Chan and his team can beat Goku too as long as Uncle has time to research.
Seriously, logic like that can’t fly in hypothetical matches.
“But we have never seen Goku at the end of GT fight anybody. So who is to say he is or is not strong enough to beat Superman. Superman can lose just as easy as Goku could in a fight the way this would work out is. Superman comes to the world of DBZ and desides to fight Goku so in that sence Superman be the bad guy is Goku’s world.”
^ This is exactly my point. It’s PURE SPECULATION how that fight would turn out. What are we going to base Goku’s strengths on when we have no idea how absorbing the dragon balls affected him at all? PURE SPECULATION is always thrown out in hypothetical matches. We go by CONCRETE EVIDENCE. So even if we were to count DBGT, we would have to count Goku BEFORE he absorbed the dragon balls.
“There has only been 1 version of Goku and while DBGT should have happened it did and i say we count it cause it was made and Akria did supervise it but Akria also did supervise DBZ Online and you want to count that so I say we count DBGT.
DBZ Online was supervised by Akria I seen it listed that is was only supervised not made. So there four DBGT should count.”
^ DBGT wasn’t made or supervised by Toriyama. DBO was at least supervised by him. He even had some part in the story while he had none in DBGT. That was all Toei. Same goes for the movies. And the fillers in the show. So you’re completely wrong on this part. DBGT is non-canon. Because Toei added so many things to the story through the movies and the fillers, the animation itself is a separate canon altogether. Ergo we go by original source material.
“So Goku would win the fight cause thats how it plays out in his world. But this also means if Goku goes to Superman’s world Superman wins cause its his world and thats how is plays out plus Superman has died many times in his world of DC. Goku has died only one time in his world I say again 1 time not 2 not 3 hell not even 100 but 1. Superman has died that I know of 3 times and some how ether got back to life or got put in some machine and got fixed or they just let him die and that ended that version of Superman.
^ AFAIK Superman died once against Doomsday. (When were the other times?) Goku lost and died against Raditz then lost then died against Cell. TWICE, not once. Not that this point is relevant anyway. You’re grasping at straws. Let’s see. Goku died twice. Elmo from Sesame Street never died. Therefore Elmo can beat Superman. Seriously, certain things that happen in their canon have no place in their argument because if you stop and think about it, it doesn’t determine who would win against the two. How many times they lost or won isn’t the determinant because they have different opponents to face against and Superman has a much longer history than Goku. Stop bringing irrelevant things into discussion.
Also, there’s no “because Goku wins in his story, if he’s in ANY story, he will just win again, because that’s how it plays out in his world.” Really, that’s true of nearly ANY main character. That means any main character can beat other main characters because that’s how it plays out in their world. Logic = out the window.
Ok you know what just for the sake of all this I am going to lie to myself and to you Superman wins. I belive thats all you want to hear so I will give it to you do what you want after hearing this. I really don’t care and this is the last time I get on this post I know what I am talking about. So if you put anything up here after this like I am a cry baby or what ever or something along the lines of that I will not see it nor will I care to tell you the truth. I stand by this no matter what and there is nobody that can change my mind not you or anybody else and to be honest I feel if I was to speak to Akira and the maker of Superman I feel that they both would say Goku would win. Anyways good bye to you and everybody else on here.
Good Luck To Anybody Else That Tries To Prove This Guy Wrong He Clearly Knows Everything And Anything And We Are All Not Smart Enough To Beat Him In Any Metal Level. All He Wants To Here Is HE IS RIGHT AND NOTHING MORE GOOD BYE EVERYBODY!!!!!
^ If you really are Matchstckgmr, then I take back what I said earlier. There is NO pro-Goku debater on the internet who isn’t a closed-minded fanboy. Don’t you even know how an argument works? I’ve presented my argument properly and the most I ever get in return are ad hominem arguments or poorly constructed ones.
I’m not going to call you a crybaby, because ad hominem attacks are the last resort of fanboys who can’t present a proper argument. My argument is solid and can stand on its own. I always take ad hominem arguments as a way for the other side to shamelessly acknowledge their defeat.
Also, if you really are Matchstckgmr, you’ve already claimed not knowing much about Superman yet know that Goku would still win, ignoring the arguments presented in regards to WHY he wouldn’t. And now you’re claiming that NOTHING will ever change your mind. That’s the very definition of fanboyism.
yeah so can the fanboys of superman get off his cock… look superman is cool and all but he never gets stronger….he doesnt train he doesnt know martial arts he doesnt do shit, thats the biggest difference from super heroes usually and anime. Superman is probaly just as strong as like fucking raditz…. because honestly raditz was super fast could pick up extremely heavy objects and do all that. every person on planet vegeta is as strong as a superman. If goku is the strongest of his kind and all his kind is at least as strong as superman, superman would lose…im sorry get over it superman fans i dont know of any way he can win…and dont give me he has the power of the sun bullshit k thx bye
Superman cannot generate enough force to damage Goku. We know this by taking a look at both character’s feats of strength.
Look at Vegeta for example. He had a Power Level of at least 18,000 during the Saiyan Saga, and was capable of destroying Planets with minimal effort.
The last directly numbered and recorded Power Level was that of Super Saiyan Goku during the Frieza Saga calculated at 150,000,000. Now, Goku’s Power Level was about equal with Frieza at 100% in his Final Form (not counting Cyborg Frieza). Now, see, Majin Buu in his weakest from, was 1,000 times more powerful than Frieza. What is 150,000,000 times 1,000? It is 150,000,000,000. Now, that is as far as I can calculate the Power Levels in Dragon Ball Z, although it has been calculated much further.
Now, if a being with a Power Level of 18,000 (like Vegeta was) can wipe an entire Planet full of formidable warriors (in their own right) out of existence without breaking a sweat, doing it just for shits and giggles, what is a being with a Power Level of over 150 BILLION (like Majin Buu) capable of? And for that matter, Goku was stronger than Majin Buu in his Super Saiyan 3 form in DBZ, and Goku in DBGT attained Super Saiyan 4, a much larger jump in power. I wish I had the calculations for his strength at that point, but I’ve heard of it being estimated to be in the TRILLIONS (when fused with Vegeta as Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta at least).
Think about it. Super Buu was capable of destroying the entire Universe (and was in the midst of doing so as a last resort out of anger before Vegito stopped him) and was severely outclassed in power by Vegito.
And it isn’t only the Power of the fighters in the DBZ Universe which is unrivaled. Their Defense is impenetrable. The very type of attacks they use with such devastating effects are blocked with their bare-hands, or Ki shields. The fighters survive extreme cold and heat, including ice and lava. Their speed is greater than that of the speed of light (Raditz at a Power Level of 1,200 was capable of moving at these speeds, and is considered a weakling) and Goku himself has a technique which moves him to any spot instantly.
And what about their other character specific abilities, including creating copies of themselves, blinding their opponents, creating false images of themselves to trick their opponents, beams that can turn beings into food, complete healing and whatnot. Hell, they even have Senzu Beans which can bring a person from the brink of death back to full health immediately upon consumption.
Could someone tell me what Superman’s greatest feat of strength is? “Moving” a planet I guess or something?
Fans of Superman, please be reasonable when reviewing the information provided. Superman would be at the mercy of Goku. Hell, he would be at the mercy of Raditz. The only Z Fighter he is capable of beating is Master Roshi, and even then he better not get hit with a Full Power Kamehameha or it’s probably over (but I don’t think Superman would allow Master Roshi to transform and fully charge the attack, so I think Master Roshi would lose)…oh, or Kami if you count him.
^ You note “Superman moving a planet” like it’s nothing. That’s physical strength alone. What’s the most impressive feat has a DBZ character done through physical strength alone? Goku at base strength at the end of Z could barely lift a mountain. Moving a planet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barely lifting a mountain. Fact.
In DBZ, ki attacks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical strength. They may be planet busters at that level, but Superman can tank shots like those. Just look at my earlier scans. If Superman is much more superior in terms of physical strength and speed, one punch is more than enough to decimate Goku.
I note Superman moving a planet like it is nothing because that’s precisely what it is when compared to the feats of strength Z Fighters/Villains are capable of.
What’s the greatest feat of physical strength a DBZ character is capable of you ask? Frieza was capable of destroying planets physically, so you can take it from there to figure the strength of stronger characters. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Frieza)
Oh, and I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Goku “barely being able to lift a mountain” or only being able to lift 40 tons at maximum.
“Planet Busters”? Did you even read what I wrote? Planet Busting was Saiyan Saga status; by the end of DBZ, about anyone can destroy a planet with ease. Dimension Ripping and Universe Breaking is what all the cool kids are into by the time Buu was battling Vegito. Tank that.
Now, assuming Superman somehow turned out to have an edge on Goku in terms of physical strength based power, there’s also defensive strength which is equally important. Goku smacks away blasts capable of destroying planets with his bare hands like it’s nothing, and is shown to be able to take Planet Busting blasts to the face and take no damage. Punches able to destroy planets aren’t even enough to affect Goku, so both Ki and Physical attacks of such enormous power are rendered obsolete. His defense is unrivaled.
And there’s the matter of Speed. What makes you think Superman is faster? It is never explicitly stated how fast he’s capable of going. As far as I can tell, he just goes so fast that weird shit happens such as “Leaving Infinity” or “Going back in time.” It is impressive but isn’t a speed we can measure, and doesn’t out-do Goku. Raditz was faster than the speed of light, and he was just garbage. And it seems you’re trying to eliminate the usefulness of Instant Transmission, which is a good way to try and get Superman’s speed up on a pedestal, but more of a cheap trick. IT doesn’t need a Ki lock for short distances, just long ones, so it is capable of being used, literally, instantly. I can’t see Superman hoping for anything better than a tie here, which is just a nice way of me saying “Superman is slower but I’ll pretend that he isn’t.”
And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.
Let’s do some hypotheticals. The way I see it, their power’s somewhat close, but even if Superman turned to be significantly faster, significantly more physically powerful offensively, and significantly defensively superior, then Goku would still have more Fighting Skill. What is power if not housed in a warrior? A waste, that’s what.
You mentioned Personality, well, I’m going to cover that and FIGHTING SKILL (which you purposely payed less attention to when analyzing the characters). Superman isn’t a member of a warrior race which lusts for fighting and destruction by nature. He has less passion for fighting. He has no ambition to be the best nor has he ever fought with someone of such impeccable fighting genius who’s nearly equal to himself in terms speed and power. Goku would love nothing more than to fight someone stronger than he is. It is when Goku is fighting someone who is a challenge to him that he becomes stronger. This is not just something nerdy I’m saying to make Goku seem cool, but it is a literal source of his power and an ability well established within the parameters of his character in the series. Much like emotions and great need push a Saiyan’s power, so too does their fighting spirit. It’s an ability in his repertoire just like his Kamehameha; he is built to fight. When we get down to it, Superman is no fighter, and despite being significantly (but not overwhelmingly) statistically superior on paper in this hypothetical scenario which I propose, when it comes down to really fighting, there is no way he can match his flawless combat skill and spirit and he would be overcome.
Sorry for the sloppy presentation, I kinda rushed this.
Hi every one I belive goku would win because. I compared both the guy that said superman would win facts with this guy that posted that goku would wins facts and it leans over more to goku. Due to his facts over running in a sense the superman fact list. So on a fact by fact base it be goku not superman to quote him here it is.
“I note Superman moving a planet like it is nothing because that’s precisely what it is when compared to the feats of strength Z Fighters/Villains are capable of.
What’s the greatest feat of physical strength a DBZ character is capable of you ask? Frieza was capable of destroying planets physically, so you can take it from there to figure the strength of stronger characters. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Frieza)
Oh, and I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Goku “barely being able to lift a mountain” or only being able to lift 40 tons at maximum.
“Planet Busters”? Did you even read what I wrote? Planet Busting was Saiyan Saga status; by the end of DBZ, about anyone can destroy a planet with ease. Dimension Ripping and Universe Breaking is what all the cool kids are into by the time Buu was battling Vegito. Tank that.
Now, assuming Superman somehow turned out to have an edge on Goku in terms of physical strength based power, there’s also defensive strength which is equally important. Goku smacks away blasts capable of destroying planets with his bare hands like it’s nothing, and is shown to be able to take Planet Busting blasts to the face and take no damage. Punches able to destroy planets aren’t even enough to affect Goku, so both Ki and Physical attacks of such enormous power are rendered obsolete. His defense is unrivaled.
And there’s the matter of Speed. What makes you think Superman is faster? It is never explicitly stated how fast he’s capable of going. As far as I can tell, he just goes so fast that weird shit happens such as “Leaving Infinity” or “Going back in time.” It is impressive but isn’t a speed we can measure, and doesn’t out-do Goku. Raditz was faster than the speed of light, and he was just garbage. And it seems you’re trying to eliminate the usefulness of Instant Transmission, which is a good way to try and get Superman’s speed up on a pedestal, but more of a cheap trick. IT doesn’t need a Ki lock for short distances, just long ones, so it is capable of being used, literally, instantly. I can’t see Superman hoping for anything better than a tie here, which is just a nice way of me saying “Superman is slower but I’ll pretend that he isn’t.”
And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.
Let’s do some hypotheticals. The way I see it, their power’s somewhat close, but even if Superman turned to be significantly faster, significantly more physically powerful offensively, and significantly defensively superior, then Goku would still have more Fighting Skill. What is power if not housed in a warrior? A waste, that’s what.
You mentioned Personality, well, I’m going to cover that and FIGHTING SKILL (which you purposely payed less attention to when analyzing the characters). Superman isn’t a member of a warrior race which lusts for fighting and destruction by nature. He has less passion for fighting. He has no ambition to be the best nor has he ever fought with someone of such impeccable fighting genius who’s nearly equal to himself in terms speed and power. Goku would love nothing more than to fight someone stronger than he is. It is when Goku is fighting someone who is a challenge to him that he becomes stronger. This is not just something nerdy I’m saying to make Goku seem cool, but it is a literal source of his power and an ability well established within the parameters of his character in the series. Much like emotions and great need push a Saiyan’s power, so too does their fighting spirit. It’s an ability in his repertoire just like his Kamehameha; he is built to fight. When we get down to it, Superman is no fighter, and despite being significantly (but not overwhelmingly) statistically superior on paper in this hypothetical scenario which I propose, when it comes down to really fighting, there is no way he can match his flawless combat skill and spirit and he would be overcome.”
Now to quote the superman guy and I want you guys to compare like I did feel free to say if you agree with me.
“I. SSJ3 vs current Superman
- First, we have to establish that the fight will be between SSJ3 vs Superman as he currently is. Dragonball Online, a new MMORPG has a new storyline that completely disregards the events of DBGT. DBGT’s storyline was done entirely by the studio that animated DBZ whereas creator Akira Toriyama has personally supervised the MMORPG’s storyline. That means that DB Online should be treated as the canonical continuation of DBZ and not DBGT. That means that all events of DBGT should be disregarded, including the existence of an SSJ4 transformation. And just to add, all movie events and filler material that does not show up in the original source material–the manga–are also considered non-canon, because they create many plotholes.
If the pro-Goku side wishes to use a non-canon version of Goku (SSJ4 Goku), then it’s just fair to use Superman One Million, who has gained a whole slew of superpowers, such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, control over reality, time, space, magic, etc., and is also in possession of the universe’s most powerful weapon. To name a few. So believe me when I say that it’s also in your best interest to just stick to SSJ3 Goku, okay?
As for which version of Superman to use, the way I see it, we can either use “pre-Crisis Superman” (that is, take both at their strongest), Superman as he currently is (basically take both at the end of their respective storylines), or Superman Prime (the only logical scenario in which we can have both fight and still take personality into consideration). The best one to use IMO is the current Superman, who is the weakest of the three anyway.
(Note that this was typed up maybe around 2006 or so, and I don’t really read that much of DC to keep up with how Superman is now, so there may be some discrepancies due to changes that has occurred between now and then.)
The thing is though, the current Superman, after sundipping, can become nearly as strong as he was pre-Crisis, so for convenience’s sake, I’ll be posting scans of current Superman, Superboy-Prime, and pre-Crisis to support my argument. Here we go.
II. Physical Strength
- Goku: Vegeta trained at 300x Earth’s gravity during the Androids saga. (IIRC, we don’t have any real basis for their strength after that, but this should suffice.) Assuming that Vegeta weighs 300 pounds, that means he’s able to lift ~90,000 pounds during the Androids saga. Goku is much stronger than Vegeta and gets even stronger in the next sagas (especially after he transforms to SSJ3), so we’ll say that he can lift MUCH more than that by the end of DBZ. Someone has informed me that Goku in his normal state can only lift 40 tons at the end of DBZ and struggles to lift a mountain. (I don’t have a scan to go with this fact, but it doesn’t matter.)
- Superman: Superman can augment his super strength to near infinite levels, at which point, he can literally move planets from one solar system to another barehanded. http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superboytowingplanets1400026uv.jpg
Now using Earth (which he has moved before here: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg with only three quarters of his strength) as our basis, that means he can move an object that weighs 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds across solar systems. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_weight.html (The Earth’s mass is 13,160,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds if you want to calculate things yourself).
It’s a stretch to assume that Goku goes from lifting ~90,000 lbs. to being able to move 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. between the Cell saga to his end-DBZ SSJ3 transformation.
Here’s a good clue why: neither Goku nor his enemies ever show themselves to have the strength to move planets all throughout DBZ through physical means alone. In fact, all efforts to destroy a planet in DBZ were done through a ki attack, not by physical means and in DBZ, ki attacks >>>> physical strength.
III. Speed
- Goku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pY1GLtNUc&feature=related shows that SSJ Gotenks (who is stronger than SSJ Goku) gets clocked to be much slower than light speed. (Ignore the portion that uses the anime as basis and go straight to the manga scan.) That makes Instant Transmission Goku’s fastest way of moving from one place to another and keep in mind that he needs a ki lock to use it, which does take a very tiny amount of time. And when facing someone with Superman’s speed, that tiny amount of time is a very wide window. Aside from that, Goku is, at his base, slower than lightspeed.
- http://i28.tinypic.com/14jxphl.jpg shows Superman flying from Earth to Saturn in 4 minutes. Light takes 17 minutes to reach Saturn, so that alone proves that Superman as he currently is, can fly four times faster than the speed of light. Pre-Crisis Superman would then put Goku to shame as he can move fast enough to break the time barrier (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/stuffoffiction/Comicbooks/Additional/?action=view¤t=SupermansGreatestFeats3.jpg) which means that he can simply fly Goku to the beginning of time (which he’s done to Brainiac, but I have no scan of that), when there are no planets, so Goku cannot survive.
Now, some people claim that Superman does not use his speed when he fights. That’s not true. http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=708yd.png http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwvssupesheatvisionta3.jpg http://i32.tinypic.com/28bgps0.jpg
Supes blitzes a lot of his opponents, so that argument against him is flawed.
Also, Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, so ki attacks are hypothetically useless. http://i31.tinypic.com/35n6jab.jpg
IV. Durability
- Goku can’t survive in space.
- Superman can survive in space.
(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THIS ENTIRE POST.) Goku’s inability to survive in outer space is a major disadvantage that will most likely be the deciding factor of this match. Now some people will point out that Freeza had that same advantage, but I want to point out the actual results of the match. Freeza survived the battle and Goku would’ve died were it not for that space pod. The only reason Goku won was because of sheer dumb luck and Freeza’s arrogance. Superman does not have that same failing as Freeza and luck is disregarded in hypothetical matches. That means that since this is a hypothetical battle, this fact alone points towards Superman ultimately winning the fight.
Both are powerful enough to destroy a planet. If the fight gets so destructive that the planet they’re fighting on gets destroyed, Goku will be the one most likely to suffer (unless he uses Instant Transmission and if this is how the scenario plays out, it just proves that the best Goku can pull is a stalemate). Also, (I’m not sure if Superman still has this ability, so someone correct me if I’m wrong,) AFAIK, Superman (like Flash) can vibrate his molecules fast enough to become intangible, which means that Goku can’t even hit him.
Also, Goku’s inability to follow Superman to space is a major drawback. Superman could fly out into space and use his telescopic vision to see where Goku is and use his heat vision, which is strong enough to fix a hole in the cosmos http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2383/supes2po7.jpg to burn a hole on Goku’s head.
And just for laughs, Pre-Crisis Supes could even fly out and simply sneeze http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9543/supersneezeae9og9.jpg and Goku will be gone. Alternatively, he could also throw an object weighing trillions of tons http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg smack into Goku’s face, or push/pull the planet Goku’s on into the sun. (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg)
Now another thing to point out is the question of whether or not Superman can survive Goku’s ki attacks. As I showed earlier, Superman is fast enough to dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams, so he is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, thus making this argument irrelevant. In the event that an attack does connect though, Superman has flown through a field of kryptonite and then through a red sun before (both of which drain his powers) and still survived. http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4568/scan00197tnwo9.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1107/scan00228qdaj6.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6425/scan00231lkoc2.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1319/scan00246wmrh2.jpg http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3958/scan00253nfnx3.jpg
So it all depends on what is more destructive, a red sun, or Goku’s ki attack. In any case, Superman should be able to dodge the attack, so withstanding it is irrelevant. (And yes, the guy he’s fighting is the same one who towed planets using chains and threw an object that weighs trillions of tons to a distance billions of lightyears away.)
Oh, and FYI, the spirit bomb wouldn’t work on Superman because he’s not evil.
V. Personality
- There’s been arguments that Superman wouldn’t use his speed in a fight or that he would hold back because he’s a “boy scout.” Here’s proof that that is not true as well. http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce54gr.jpg http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce61ab.jpg http://returntocomics.typepad.com/photos/misc/superman_kills_hbomb.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/heat_vision1.jpg
Again, Superman has blitzed (at lightspeed) many of his opponents before.
Besides, if we take personality into account, Goku isn’t likely to use kryptonite against Superman. (He gave Cell a senzu bean for crying out loud.)
Ultimately, if you take personality into account, Superman and Goku wouldn’t kill each other, so there’s no real way this match can be carried out since neither one will go all out. That is why personality should be ignored in hypothetical battles and assume that they are “bloodlusted.” (The only fair plausible scenario in which personality can be taken into account is Superman-Prime vs Goku.)
But if we assume that they‘re bloodlusted, then what’s to stop Superman from simply flying Goku straight into the sun or out into the universe? (Which he’s done repeatedly to opponents.)
VI. Weaknesses
- Goku: Goku cannot sustain his SSJ3 transformation for very long, meaning that he can only fight at his peak in a very short amount of time. Aside from that, his only weaknesses are the limits to his strength, speed, and durability, and the aforementioned inability to survive in outer space. (http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4240/4211014db.gif)
- Superman: Superman has a very well-known weakness to kryptonite. But in his storyline, Superman has gathered almost all of them and threw them into the sun, and gave the remaining pieces to Batman. That means that for the sake of this argument, there is no kryptonite that can be used against Superman.
Besides, Superman can still hold his own even after being weakened. (See my earlier scan of Superman flying through a field of kryptonite, then through a red sun, all the while carrying Superboy-Prime, who is much stronger than he is.)
Of course, Superman is also susceptible to magic and mind control, but Goku isn’t magic and he can’t control minds either.
VIII. Martial Arts Skills
- Superman has had some training, but Goku is definitely the superior martial artist of the two. This advantage, however, will not help him overcome his other shortcomings.
IX. Wizard’s Versus Battle
- Now, some will point out that Wizard did a take on this match and published that Goku would be the winner. First of all, it should be noted that that match was not canon. Wizard does those hypothetical matches a lot and if they were canon, then that would mean that a lot of fictional characters would be dead in their respective universes. It’s just a take by other writers, so it’s not canon, and sometimes it can be completely incorrect.
If you read that particular versus battle, you’ll see that they use a LOT of completely wrong information. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg
The most obvious inconsistensies are:
1. Goku being able to fight in space.
2. Superman not surviving a punch that would put him in collision with Earth’s surface. (He’s been punched though the Earth and shrugged it off.)
3. Some unheard of “particle flux” that results from Goku’s IT.
4. Goku at his base form being strong enough to land a heavy blow on Supes.
So not only was that versus match not canon, it was completely filled with false information. I mean, even the premise is ridiculous. Eighth dragonball? Not only is Goku familiar enough with the dragonballs to know that that information is false, he also knows Kami/Piccolo/Dende and would’ve simply gone to them and asked them to confirm it before trusting someone who he most likely sensed to have an evil intention.
X. Faster than a speeding bullet…
- Most people seem to forget that there are various incarnations of Superman and are completely biased in choosing which one to pit against Goku in this argument. There’s absolutely no reason to go with Superman from the movies or a past, weaker version of him other than to sway the argument to Goku’s favor. To use a non-canon or an outdated incarnation of Superman would be as unfairly biased as say, pitting DB Goku against pre-Crisis Superman.
That said, a lot of people seem to have very little knowledge of Superman. “Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” has not been true for over half a century now. I mean, the guy can fly out to space. That just goes to show that “able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” is definitely an outdated understatement. So, if you’re going to use arguments against Superman, please make sure that it is up to date and accurate. (I’m being a bit of hypocrite here since I have admitted that this argument is a couple of years old, but AFAIK, there hasn‘t been that much changes between then and now anyway.)
The same goes for Goku. Know the difference between filler and canon material and stick to using what is canon.
XI. You’re a Superman fanboy.
- I’m adding this here because this is the most common illogical argument used against me.
I am, with all honesty, not a fan of DC. And I don’t even like Superman all that much. The reasons why I’ve grown to dislike Superman though (being way too overpowered) are the very reasons why I believe he would win against Goku. That said, I like Goku better as a character overall.
Anyway, please refrain from using this logic against me and focus on the points laid out above.
To further add to my proof that I am not supporting Superman out of fanboyism, I should point out that I don’t believe that Superman is unbeatable. In fact, I think there is another DBZ character capable of defeating Superman. I believe that any incarnation of Buu should be able to accomplish that feat, but it would depend on the scenario.
So you might ask, why then, do I believe that Buu can defeat Superman but Goku, who defeated Buu, can’t? Simple. Buu won’t win by overpowering Superman, but by absorbing him, which Goku obviously can’t do. This is where the “scenario” part plays in. If Superman is aware of Buu’s absorption technique, then his super speed, long range heat beams, and heightened senses should be enough to play a good keep-away game and ultimately destroy Buu. However, if Superman is unaware of this ability, Buu can easily take him by surprise and absorb him. And since Superman is susceptible to magic and Buu was created by magic, it’s logical to assume that Superman would get absorbed easily.
So there you have it. Superman wins this one easily due to numerous advantages.”
One more thing the writer of the superman is really Paragon The goku write guy be BearerOfBadNews next I like to add that. Matchstckgmr or whatever I can say I wished I joined sooner to only keep him here for I feel that he be happy to see that somebody has just proved this Paragon guy wrong. So I do not think Matchstckgmr will mind when I thank BearerOfBadNews on his be hafe for showing Paragon that he was wrong about superman winning. Too add on I also think Paragon should not have replied to Matchstckgmr’s post cause he said he never becoming back to this site again dumb on paragon’s part if you ask me. Matchstckgmr is not going to see it.
Superman would win, no doubt. Goku is my favourite but i mean come on look at the facts people ! Superman cannot be killed unless he is exposed to kryptonite or the sun is destroyed as he gets his energy from earths yellow sun. Supermans energy is pretty much unlimited aslong as the sun remains where it is. Goku can die however and has done several times. He does run out of energy and needs stuff to recharge himself such as senzu beans. Unless goku got his hands on some kryptonite or destroyed the sun (Which would kill him anyway as it would go supernova and wipe out all surrounding planets, so he wouldnt do that. Also superman would probably live for a while longer with his remaining energy and would still win. Also before anyone mentions the dragon balls you would only get one wish. If it was for the planets to be restored they wouldnt be able to survive without the sun, if you bring back the sun superman survives and wins again). Basically in a fair fight superman would win. In a dirty fight superman would win (unless kryptonite was introduced).
First off goku has died only 2 times superman has died 3 to 4 times in comic books and cartoons. Also you fail to remember that sayians get there energy from the moon much like superman does the sun. Also if you count GT goku used the earth as another energy sorce cause the moon was not around to turn into super sayian 4. so all in all goku has 3 counting senzu beans, the moon, and again if you count GT the earth. Plus you clearly did not read the info on superman for for you sake Oscar Partridge I will post it here again for you to see. This info on Goku was not typed by me but by BarerOfBadNews.
“I note Superman moving a planet like it is nothing because that’s precisely what it is when compared to the feats of strength Z Fighters/Villains are capable of.
What’s the greatest feat of physical strength a DBZ character is capable of you ask? Frieza was capable of destroying planets physically, so you can take it from there to figure the strength of stronger characters. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Frieza)
Oh, and I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Goku “barely being able to lift a mountain” or only being able to lift 40 tons at maximum.
“Planet Busters”? Did you even read what I wrote? Planet Busting was Saiyan Saga status; by the end of DBZ, about anyone can destroy a planet with ease. Dimension Ripping and Universe Breaking is what all the cool kids are into by the time Buu was battling Vegito. Tank that.
Now, assuming Superman somehow turned out to have an edge on Goku in terms of physical strength based power, there’s also defensive strength which is equally important. Goku smacks away blasts capable of destroying planets with his bare hands like it’s nothing, and is shown to be able to take Planet Busting blasts to the face and take no damage. Punches able to destroy planets aren’t even enough to affect Goku, so both Ki and Physical attacks of such enormous power are rendered obsolete. His defense is unrivaled.
And there’s the matter of Speed. What makes you think Superman is faster? It is never explicitly stated how fast he’s capable of going. As far as I can tell, he just goes so fast that weird shit happens such as “Leaving Infinity” or “Going back in time.” It is impressive but isn’t a speed we can measure, and doesn’t out-do Goku. Raditz was faster than the speed of light, and he was just garbage. And it seems you’re trying to eliminate the usefulness of Instant Transmission, which is a good way to try and get Superman’s speed up on a pedestal, but more of a cheap trick. IT doesn’t need a Ki lock for short distances, just long ones, so it is capable of being used, literally, instantly. I can’t see Superman hoping for anything better than a tie here, which is just a nice way of me saying “Superman is slower but I’ll pretend that he isn’t.”
And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.
Let’s do some hypotheticals. The way I see it, their power’s somewhat close, but even if Superman turned to be significantly faster, significantly more physically powerful offensively, and significantly defensively superior, then Goku would still have more Fighting Skill. What is power if not housed in a warrior? A waste, that’s what.
You mentioned Personality, well, I’m going to cover that and FIGHTING SKILL (which you purposely payed less attention to when analyzing the characters). Superman isn’t a member of a warrior race which lusts for fighting and destruction by nature. He has less passion for fighting. He has no ambition to be the best nor has he ever fought with someone of such impeccable fighting genius who’s nearly equal to himself in terms speed and power. Goku would love nothing more than to fight someone stronger than he is. It is when Goku is fighting someone who is a challenge to him that he becomes stronger. This is not just something nerdy I’m saying to make Goku seem cool, but it is a literal source of his power and an ability well established within the parameters of his character in the series. Much like emotions and great need push a Saiyan’s power, so too does their fighting spirit. It’s an ability in his repertoire just like his Kamehameha; he is built to fight. When we get down to it, Superman is no fighter, and despite being significantly (but not overwhelmingly) statistically superior on paper in this hypothetical scenario which I propose, when it comes down to really fighting, there is no way he can match his flawless combat skill and spirit and he would be overcome.”
@Hasio: I haven’t proven anything, I’ve only presented an argument just as Paragon has and I await his rebuttal, if he can come up with one. Thanks anyway though.
^ I hate ignorant arguments. Superman has proven to be susceptible to attacks non-Kryptonite/Sun related.
Goku could die a million times and it doesn’t mean that he’s weaker for it. It just goes to show how powerful his foes are. Stop presenting your arguments in the form of random facts.
Get science right. Our sun doesn’t go supernova. If you can’t argue fictionally or scientifically, I suggest to stand back and let the big boys play.
——————————————————————————————————————
BearerOfBadNews sorry to have used random facts but I only fill in what I feel was not picked up by others not you but others. I do know that just cause superman has died more does not mean that goku is any better just getting the facts out there some guy said goku died more than superman when it was superman that has died more.
Basically, Superman can move an estimate of 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons while Goku can’t lift 10 tons at base strength. So unless you’re implying that between base form and SSJ3, Goku gets a 658,000,000,000,000,000,000x multiplier, then you’d have to agree, Superman is CLEARLY Goku’s superior in physical strength.
And also, wiki is not a source. Fact is that no one in DBZ ever proved themselves as physical planet busters. All attempts to destroy a planet was through ki attacks because again, ki attacks are far more powerful than their own physical strength. And even then, they have to charge it up. (I mean, just use your common sense. It’s pretty stupid that Cell would have to charge up a Kamehameha to destroy the Earth if he could’ve just easily punched it.)
Note also that all physical fights in DBZ stay in one planet. Superman’s toughest physical fights in DC are fought across the galaxy. I mean, here, he punches Wonder Woman from the sun back to Earth: http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/aloner1/S1.jpg
And did you read what I wrote? Planet busting is no problem because Superman has no problem surviving planets exploding in his face:
The guy’s punches can punch through dimensions too. And Superman went toe to toe with him.
II. Speed
Goku’s fast enough that he can cover the same distance if it’s short at the same rate as using IT. That’s why IT in short distances is a moot point. But Superman is indeed faster. You didn’t really read my post did you? Go back and read the section on their speed. I even posted sources.
III. Superman can survive in space
“And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.”
^ Then you’re trying to paint a BS scenario. Go through the scans I posted. A common tactic for Superman is to fly his enemies out into space where he can go all out. To limit that is to limit the character unnecessarily. It’s unfair to Goku because he can’t survive in space? All you’re saying is that you have to give Superman a handicap to give Goku a chance. Superman can and usually does fight in space, which is a big problem for Goku because he can’t survive in space. Deal with it.
IV. Fighting Skills
Fighting skills is pointless when the gap in power is too big for it to matter. And as I showed earlier, Superman is superior to Goku in strength.
Paragon, the strength you’re citing for Goku’s Base Form is what seems to be right after the Cell Saga. There is, I believe, a SEVEN YEAR gap in time between that time and when he is brought back to Earth for the World Martial Arts Tournament. Obviously you don’t know anything about Goku, because even small and seemingly insignificant amounts of time lead to astronomical increases in strength. We cannot speculate just how much physical strength he had acquired in that time, but suffice to say, his training had granted him two additional forms of Super Saiyan. I trust you know just how difficult it was for everyone in DBZ to acquire Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, and Perfect-State Super Saiyan, so try to understand what it means for him to master two additional forms of Super Saiyan (being the only non-Fusion DBZ character to attain the form).
And don’t think that I am going by what you think. I consider DBGT to be canon, as do many, if not most people. Goku by the end of “A Hero’s Legacy” in his Base Form cannot
even be compared to himself as his Base Form just after the Cell Saga.
DBZ characters do not need to prove anything through action. DBZ characters are physical planet busters, as is stated which is accepted as fact. Much of many forms of media, especially literature, utilize a little thing called “inference.” Dictionary Definition of the word Infer: “To draw a conclusion, as by reasoning.” From what we see in DBZ and DBGT, we may figure out someone’s power WITHOUT seeing it. If you argue this, you are foregoing logic and I will hence forth disengage with you in both debate and conversation since I will infer that you are purposely being obtuse.
And no, DBZ characters do not require a charge for their Ki attacks. It is simply that generally the longer one charges an attack, the more powerful it becomes. Some characters take longer to gather energy, especially early during the series. Characters such as Kid Buu are capable of generating planet busting attacks instantaneously by end of DBZ, as compared to the minutes it took Piccolo to charge his Special Beam Cannon against Raditz.
So a fight isn’t waged across a galaxy, so what? They can’t have someone fly across the galaxy every time they get hit. It’s like wondering why Goku can fly to fight Frieza just before he is about to kill Vegeta in seconds, but later in the series it takes minutes of screen time to cover a similar distance. It’s an artistic and story based decision independent of fact for these things to occur. You seem to have trouble grasping these types of ideas. I bet you’re an Atheist because you can’t see God, so therefore he must not exist, much like why Goku can’t physically destroy a planet, just because you’ve never seen it.
What was that about Superman and an exploding planet (rhetorical question, Paragon; don’t consider)? A Planet blowing up in your face is different than a blast capable of destroying a planet millions times over in your face. Not even similar at all on any level, don’t get them confused.
goku strong he hit with a pow that rips earth with pow pow. goku like the pow thats why he do it…… superman pow away
Apparently my friend, who is bereft of intelligence, decided it would amuse his simple wits to type in a grammatically retarded fashion and make derogatory, fascist statement in my name. I apologize for his actions, for he knows not what he does.
On the subject of Speed, do enlighten me as to how Superman is faster than Goku, seeing as Goku has the capability to utilize Instant Transmission during fights. Your scans show Superman’s speed but don’t depict how he is faster, because as far as I understand, there is no time passed between usage and arrival at his destination. Explain this to me, please.
I won’t deal with the fact that Superman likes to fight in space. That’s his problem. For a battle to occur, it must also occur somewhere, and preferably somewhere fair. Where this battle happens will impact the fight and give an advantage to one fighter or the other. You’re probably assuming it just takes place on Earth somewhere, nice and close to a yellow sun too. Who’s to say this battle should occur on Earth at all? And just because Goku probably can’t last long in space doesn’t mean much to me, I just always think a fight should be thought of as occuring somewhere that doesn’t have outside influences. What if Goku were invincible on Mars? Should I say the battle takes place on Mars?
Go ahead and have space defeat Goku if you want, I bet that’s fun, but when it comes down to the warriors themselves, Goku is superior.
Oh, and I like how you covered Planet Busting and Dimension Ripping, but conveniently left out a mention of Universe Breaking. Goku is capable of destroying the universe, this much you must deal with and I want to know how you plan to do it.
BearerOfBadNews I do not know if you seen my post saying sorry to you but please do look higher up to find it next. I hope you do not mind me saying nice job so far on your argument I have a strong feeling you will win this I hope I did not jinks it. Please keep up the good work and I see you also have a great mastery over the english language thats a good plus if you ask me but please keep it up.
“Paragon, the strength you’re citing for Goku’s Base Form is what seems to be right after the Cell Saga. There is, I believe, a SEVEN YEAR gap in time between that time and when he is brought back to Earth for the World Martial Arts Tournament. Obviously you don’t know anything about Goku, because even small and seemingly insignificant amounts of time lead to astronomical increases in strength. We cannot speculate just how much physical strength he had acquired in that time, but suffice to say, his training had granted him two additional forms of Super Saiyan.”
^ Again, 10 tons to anywhere near 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons? Pfft. How about this. I’m the only one who is backing up his arguments with actual proof via scans. Prove to me that Goku’s physical strength is enough to lift 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons. You don’t have to post the actual page of the manga. You can tell me which volume it is and I’ll look at it myself. (It’s funny because you guys keep going “lol you don’t know much about Goku” when I’m almost sure now that I know more than you guys. I’m a big fan. I even have all the games Call me a Superman fanboy all you want, I actually like DBZ MUCH better than DC.)
“And don’t think that I am going by what you think. I consider DBGT to be canon, as do many, if not most people. Goku by the end of “A Hero’s Legacy” in his Base Form cannot
even be compared to himself as his Base Form just after the Cell Saga. ”
^ LMAO! People don’t get to decide what is and isn’t canon. I’m not gonna debate without anyone who doesn’t have the wits to realize that. The only thing that is part of Toriyama’s DBZ canon are those that were created by Toriyama. The animation (including GT) is entirely Toei. So, no.
“DBZ characters do not need to prove anything through action. DBZ characters are physical planet busters, as is stated which is accepted as fact.”
^ Proof. NAO. Where is this “stated”?
“Much of many forms of media, especially literature, utilize a little thing called “inference.” Dictionary Definition of the word Infer: “To draw a conclusion, as by reasoning.” From what we see in DBZ and DBGT, we may figure out someone’s power WITHOUT seeing it. If you argue this, you are foregoing logic and I will hence forth disengage with you in both debate and conversation since I will infer that you are purposely being obtuse.”
lol so from where do you infer that Goku can destroy a planet physically when all efforts to do this is in DBZ is through ki attacks?
“So a fight isn’t waged across a galaxy, so what? They can’t have someone fly across the galaxy every time they get hit. It’s like wondering why Goku can fly to fight Frieza just before he is about to kill Vegeta in seconds, but later in the series it takes minutes of screen time to cover a similar distance. It’s an artistic and story based decision independent of fact for these things to occur. You seem to have trouble grasping these types of ideas. I bet you’re an Atheist because you can’t see God, so therefore he must not exist, much like why Goku can’t physically destroy a planet, just because you’ve never seen it.”
^ LMAO! What you have trouble grasping is facts and that we don’t use “artistic and story based decision” to explain how physics work within a fictional world. It has to make sense within its own world. Freeza didn’t go, “Hey, make sure you don’t punch me too far. I want the fight to look aesthetically pleasing. Regardless of Toriyama’s reason, when someone is punched in DBZ, they don’t generate as much force as they do in DC. Also, the main reason they can’t just fly across the galaxy is because Goku can’t breathe in space. A real DBZ fan would know that.
“What was that about Superman and an exploding planet (rhetorical question, Paragon; don’t consider)? A Planet blowing up in your face is different than a blast capable of destroying a planet millions times over in your face. Not even similar at all on any level, don’t get them confused.
goku strong he hit with a pow that rips earth with pow pow. goku like the pow thats why he do it…… superman pow away”
^ Way to miss the point. The point is that Superman can tank those kinds of things. Not satisfied with that? Fine. See the earlier scan to see that Superman can fly through the red sun (which also drains away his energy) unharmed. But again, that’s REALLY beside the point since Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge ki attacks. See my earlier argument why.
“On the subject of Speed, do enlighten me as to how Superman is faster than Goku, seeing as Goku has the capability to utilize Instant Transmission during fights. Your scans show Superman’s speed but don’t depict how he is faster, because as far as I understand, there is no time passed between usage and arrival at his destination. Explain this to me, please.”
^ Quit BSing. You didn’t really view my scans or else you’d know that one of them clocks Superman from Earth to Saturn. One clocks Gotenks around the world. So yeah, it does depict the time. And again, IT is pointless in short distances. The point of IT is covering huge distances in a short amount of time. In a short distance, Goku’s fast enough to cover the distance that quick. It’s like using a remote control to turn on a TV that’s one foot away from you. It’s pointless since you can switch it on yourself.
“I won’t deal with the fact that Superman likes to fight in space. That’s his problem. For a battle to occur, it must also occur somewhere, and preferably somewhere fair. Where this battle happens will impact the fight and give an advantage to one fighter or the other.”
^ I’m with you on starting it on fair grounds. Never argued that. But after it does start, you can’t control it anymore or else it limits the characters unnecessarily. Even if it starts on Earth or some other planet, Superman will move the fight to space. To say he can’t because he has to keep it “fair” is laughable.
“Go ahead and have space defeat Goku if you want, I bet that’s fun, but when it comes down to the warriors themselves, Goku is superior.”
Except I’m the only one who’s actually posted my sources and all of them say it’s wrong.
“Oh, and I like how you covered Planet Busting and Dimension Ripping, but conveniently left out a mention of Universe Breaking. Goku is capable of destroying the universe, this much you must deal with and I want to know how you plan to do it.”
“Conveniently left it out”? LMAO. See, I posted an earlier scan of the guy that he was fighting accidentally destroying a galaxy with his sneeze. (I didn’t post that that same guy was capable of punching through dimensions though, which is why I posted that.) It was redundant to prove that Superman is capable of taking on galaxy-busters because it was already STRONGLY implied. My fault for thinking you were capable of figuring that out yourself.
Damn BearerOfBadNews and Paragon watching you 2 go at it is better than TV I can’t wait to see what goes on next. I hope you have something to come back with BearerOfBadNews and please don’t give up so easy. A battle is only over when one warrior dies, gives, or refuses to fight back or in this case comment back.
^ Hardly anybody wins internet arguments. The only way to win is to persuade people onto your side and hardly anybody does that. Usually, people just lose interest in the argument and never come back. Even if someone decides to leave though, it doesn’t mean that the other side won. I won’t say that I won against Matchstckgmr just because he left. It’s not a contest of endurance.
[And it's dumb to say that I shouldn't reply to Matchstckgmr because (1) people can type in whatever name they want (I even state that I wasn't sure if it was him that typed that); (2) people are free to come back; and (3) I'm free to post it.]
Regardless of who wins arguments though, there is a proper way to do this and it’s to present your argument and then use actual facts drawn from the original source material to support it. I’m the only one who’s been doing that so far. I’d really appreciate it if you guys started citing your sources and not just saying, “Goku can lift more than 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons because I think he can.”
Also, I’m not sure why my reply was deleted, but when did Superman die more than once? And no, do not use the cartoons or movies. Those are non-canon. Only from the original source material: the comics. For the record, AFAIK Superman died once and Goku died twice. But at least Hasio’s right about one thing: how many times they lost or died isn’t an indicator of who would win against the other, so it’s really irrelevant. I’m just asking because I’m curious. I actually don’t read Superman that much. (Nearly all of this, I found through research.)
There’s never anytime when a character sneezes and destroys a galaxy. NEVER. Face it. DC characters were written to be overpowered. For the longest time, they were considered crappy for that reason. There was never really any credible threat. Once, Superman was so OP that he overheard two characters conspiring across the universe, waited for Lois to blink, flew over there, beat them up, and flew back before she opened her eyes again. I mean, it’s so ridiculously overpowered that it’s pathetic. The stories sucked.
I like DBZ much better because the characters, while being powerful, have their limits. The story is better that way. It’s why I like it. But it’s also why I have to say that they’d lose against certain DC characters. (And DC isn’t the only place that has characters that can beat them. There’s Fei from Xenogears, TC Ultimecia from Final Fantasy, and from what I hear nearly the entire Darkstalkers cast are stronger than DBZ. They’re far from being the strongest fictional characters out there. There are other characters that can beat them.)
Superman’s just stronger, and I’m saying that it’s not necessarily a good thing on Superman’s part.
Well I can tell you I am not and I say again not matchstckgmr I think I typed his display name up right I am not going to look to see if I did. Next I do not know where I have seen this but I know superman has died 3 times in the comic books I just can’t find the picture for it but I know he has but thats besides the point we all agree that just cause one died more than the other does not mean one is stronger than the other. Also just cause there is no visual or writen record of goku being able too lift just as much close to or more than superman does not mean he is not able to. As BearerOfBadNews said and I quote
“DBZ characters do not need to prove anything through action. DBZ characters are physical planet busters, as is stated which is accepted as fact. Much of many forms of media, especially literature, utilize a little thing called “inference.” Dictionary Definition of the word Infer: “To draw a conclusion, as by reasoning.” From what we see in DBZ and DBGT, we may figure out someone’s power WITHOUT seeing it. If you argue this, you are foregoing logic and I will hence forth disengage with you in both debate and conversation since I will infer that you are purposely being obtuse.”
So we can just about come around to see how much stronger goku was after the cell saga. No where is it stated how much he can lift after it but I am sure its alot more. How much more I can not say but alot more is for sure. Is it more than Superman I can not say but like I said I am sure its alot more.
I am not trying to Argue with you Paragon but I am only showing what I see I listen to both sides here. To tell you the truth I belive goku has the better chance only cause I feel the arguement is going in his favor so far not cause people pop in and say stuff like. Goku wins hands down, or he can like go to super sayian 12 and beat supermans ass. Anyways you get my point. Like I said I am not this matchstckgmr guy and I will unlike him keep watching this cause I like this site and I really like watching 2 people go at each others wits. The only 2 people I like seeing so far do this is You(Paragon) and BearerOfBadNews please both of you keep up the good work and good luck to both of you.
“Well I can tell you I am not and I say again not matchstckgmr I think I typed his display name up right I am not going to look to see if I did. Next I do not know where I have seen this but I know superman has died 3 times in the comic books I just can’t find the picture for it but I know he has but thats besides the point we all agree that just cause one died more than the other does not mean one is stronger than the other. Also just cause there is no visual or writen record of goku being able too lift just as much close to or more than superman does not mean he is not able to. As BearerOfBadNews said and I quote”
I didn’t say you were matchstckgmr, just that I was replying in case that wasn’t him who typed that since anyone can type up whatever name they want.
Also, AFAIK he died once and that was against Doomsday. That’s all I know of. I’ve looked everywhere and that’s all I can find. The other times I see where he died weren’t Earth-One Superman (which includes the cartoons and movies). Unless you can prove otherwise, we’re going with one. Again, it’s not important anyway, but just stating should it ever turn out to be.
“So we can just about come around to see how much stronger goku was after the cell saga. No where is it stated how much he can lift after it but I am sure its alot more. How much more I can not say but alot more is for sure. Is it more than Superman I can not say but like I said I am sure its alot more.”
^ The problem with this is you can’t go by pure speculation in a hypothetical match. The whole thing is already speculation, so to base it on speculation as well will lead you nowhere. Go only by what you know for sure–that is, what you can back up with the original source material (Toriyama’s manga and DC’s comic books).
“I am not trying to Argue with you Paragon but I am only showing what I see I listen to both sides here. To tell you the truth I belive goku has the better chance only cause I feel the arguement is going in his favor so far not cause people pop in and say stuff like. Goku wins hands down, or he can like go to super sayian 12 and beat supermans ass. Anyways you get my point. Like I said I am not this matchstckgmr guy and I will unlike him keep watching this cause I like this site and I really like watching 2 people go at each others wits. The only 2 people I like seeing so far do this is You(Paragon) and BearerOfBadNews please both of you keep up the good work and good luck to both of you.”
^ You only say that the argument is going in Goku’s favor because you’re biased towards Goku. Like I said, I’m the only one who’s posted actual actual evidence and they all point towards the opposite.
Well I am not biased in fact I real life job that I do does not let me be biased I have to be on both sides. I am being truthful from my reading I see that goku seems to be winning only cause of what I read. But when its comes down to it we may never know who would win I mean. We can talk about this till the day we die and still will never know. I think the only way to do this would be for both who ever came up with superman and Akira Toyiama to come together and make a comic or a manga. That both of them work on and really sit there and talk it out as to who they think between the both of them think would win. I mean I think they sit there and tell the other one about there creations and both them would sit there and ether say ok well it will play out to ether goku being the winner or superman depending on what the come too.
I had to add this I looked up who made the very first superman he was made by 2 people also before I say who they were did you know that when they first made superman they wanted him to be evil not good. I found that funny anyways here are there names.
I also like to add that both of them are dead. Also nether one of them came up with Superman Prime. That version of superman was made by 2 other guys and sense superman prime was not made by Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel that means its Non-canon based on how everybody seems to be using the word.
Sorry too add another thing but I have seen goku’s father bardock and vegeta breath in space too and the bardock thing is a tv specal not a movie thats what it is listed as. So if both bardock and vegeta do it why not goku?
“I also like to add that both of them are dead. Also nether one of them came up with Superman Prime. That version of superman was made by 2 other guys and sense superman prime was not made by Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel that means its Non-canon based on how everybody seems to be using the word.”
^ Wrong again. Canon is defined as the original works of an author. In cases like Superman, or various TV shows that have various writers working on it, “author” means the intellectual property owner, the IP owner in this case being DC.
In DBZ’s case, Toriyama is still the intellectual property owner, so only works made by him count towards the DB canon.
So no. Nice try though.
“I am being truthful from my reading I see that goku seems to be winning only cause of what I read. But when its comes down to it we may never know who would win I mean. We can talk about this till the day we die and still will never know. I think the only way to do this would be for both who ever came up with superman and Akira Toyiama to come together and make a comic or a manga”
^ Then you are obviously not qualified to judge. The pro-Goku hasn’t even posted a PROPER argument. lol How could they be winning? Their side consists mainly of posting Goku’s abilities without gauging it to Superman. People would post that Goku can blast a kamehameha and post no proof that Superman can’t withstand strong blasts like that. Or that Goku is stronger or faster without posting just how fast or how strong Superman is to properly compare against Goku.
If the pro-Goku side wants to post a proper argument, they have to post what they know about Superman to compare against Goku, not just post random stuff about Goku and say, “see, he’d win.” That’s not an argument at all.
And no, people can do hypothetical matches and determine the winner on their own through logic. DBZ fanboys just have a history of lacking in that department.
SSj4 Goku lifts up half of a huge city and then hardly lets loose a little sigh. He wasn’t even trying, and that wasn’t even at his furthest point of strength in the series. What else does he have to pick up? Does he need to also move a planet for you to consider him Superman’s equal in strength? I hope you understand the sheer impossibilities inherently associated with the very mechanics of a single being actually physically moving a planet, and I know DBZ isn’t exactly realistic, but you want proof that Goku is stronger by him LIFFFFING TEH UNIVERSE—NO, WAIT LIFFTINGG TEH MULTIVERSESS,!!1. Listen, DBZ characters prove their strength through battle, not bench pressing all of existence; what with Frieza’s ability to destroy a planet with his strength, and with Goku lifting cities, I don’t know how much further they can go to prove something to you. *shrugs*
No, you don’t know more about “DBZ” than me. Perhaps more about the original content by Akira Toriyama, the manga, but as a whole, I know as much, if not more than you. As for calling you a Superman fanboy, well, you act like one, but if you say you’re not, then you’re not.
“Toriyama’s DBZ canon”? Um, no, for one, he was involved with the creation of DBGT and seems to give it his blessing, creating artwork and such for releases. Two, I may be sinning here, but I don’t go by if Toriyama made it or not. In fact, that’s like not accepting Superman if whoever was the fag who originally wrote Superman isn’t writing him anymore (Thanks to Hasio, turns out there were two fags; Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel). If you wanna go that route, then we’ll exclude GT and anything not written by Joe and Jerry.
Furthermore on the issue of canonicity, what is or is not canon shouldn’t, and as far as I know, DOES NOT hinge on the original creator, nor even necessarily the original media. Furthermore, canon is hardly ever clear, and often goes by what is commonly accepted, or whatever fits into the canon without significant contradiction (you can’t say LOL WTF GOKOOS SOCKS R NUT BROWN WTF NOT CANON). SSj4 exists. I’m not forcing you to agree, and I’m not forcing you to debate me. As I said, if we exclude GT, we exclude much of Superman, or we keep arguing or whatever.
Superman has never been shown to tank the power of an attack the magnitude of what has been depicted in DBZ. You’re the one BSing now. And your picture you used as proof that Superman can dodge DBZ Ki attacks doesn’t work, the link is broken or something (as are several of your links, FYI).
DBZ seems to contradict itself on sometimes, unfortunately. Gotenks’ speed must be omitted as evidence of any kind as it is no more than an error, since Goku with a Power Level of 9,000 was capable of reaching the speed of Mach 17 (seventeen times the speed of sound) just after his training on King Kai’s Planet. And, I do believe, that was in his Base Form. Kaioken increases a users speed by up to, I believe, 20 times. Super Saiyan does this by 50 times. I’m not sure how much more by SSj2, SSj3, and SSj4. Plus, Goku’s speed increased in his Base Form after that point anyway. I am no math wizard over here, and I don’t have all of the numbers, but his speed is um, kind of fast-ish without even factoring in Instant Transmission.
Speaking of Instant Transmission, even if a T.V is one foot away from me, I still must travel the existing distance, and at any speed, some time is clocked, although it may be seemingly insignificant or unnecessary. The distance issue, and resulting time involved in crossing the distance, is irrelevant when factoring in Instant Transmission. There is no more convenient way to travel any distance.
I am glad that you are with me on fair grounds, but are you as concerned with it as I am? What if we were debating about something else and I said that the aliens from War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise would beat the aliens in a fair fight from Independence Day with Will Smith? Why should we just assume it takes place on Earth? That is extremely advantageous to the Independence Day aliens. And even if we take the fight somewhere that seems balanced at first, what if the fight moves somewhere advantageous to a particular party? I still wouldn’t see that as fair circumstances, so the battle, in my opinion, should happen somewhere that is constant in its unbiased, unwavering fairness. I always suggest a plane of existence, baron of anything but free space stretching for infinity, and an indestructible ground in some type of environment which inexplicably allows basic survival of all participants involved. Of course, everyone’s opinion of fair will be different, so whatever.
The sources you cite are arguable, and some are not working. All information I cite is easily obtainable, and since I am lazy, I may or may not relay to you a source (although, as I said, it is easily obtainable information. If I say 2+2=4, I hope I don’t need to cite a source for you).
Destroying a galaxy and punching holes through dimensions is not the same as destroying the entire universe. As in, everything. Goku could easily make this fight a tie if he had to by destroying the universe, Superman and himself included. My source in Goku’s staggering Power Level by the end of Z/GT. So you did leave it out, one way or another.
You’re not the only one arguing properly, that’s just self-bias. You do not need to utilize hard facts. Many people are prosecuted for murder based on circumstantial evidence, similar to how we are sometimes required in certain media to use inference to draw our conclusions, rather than hard, easily presentable facts. And just because you show someone is capable of doing something, it doesn’t mean that someone else isn’t capable of it or something similar just because they haven’t shown it. That’s not logical, and THAT is not the way to debate.
“Goku can lift more than 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons because I think he can?” No, I believe he can lift more than that because there’s no reason to think that he cannot. He’s lifted the heaviest things on Earth that anyone can think of, and didn’t break a sweat. Literally. Again, understand that this isn’t concrete proof that he could conceivably lift a planet (even if physics allowed such a thing) but there’s no reason to believe that he cannot, especially at his peak. It’s certainly not outside the realm of possibilities; in fact, it is quite probable and I don’t think he’d have any trouble doing it.
Hell, I could argue that Bruce Willis’ character from Unbreakable could beat Goku and Superman at the same time, if I so chose. On paper, it works. But I use logic, my common sense, to determine that he would not be able to, despite theoretical possibilities. He is shown never to take any type of damage from any type of incident thrown at him, from shaving his face, to car and train accidents. He is shown to lift an infinite amount of weight, despite it only being a few hundred pounds he was shown to lift. It can be argued that his strength adapts to whatever the situation calls for.
But do I think this means that he can withstand a Kamehameha? Not personally, but I can’t say he wouldn’t just because it’s never been shown. His only known weakness is deprivation of oxygen, and not just by water (despite it being the only shown method of weakness). One can infer that he would not survive in space, either.
…Do you understand what it is I am trying to relay to you? I hope so.
Anyway, as I believe I have previously stated, even if Superman turned out to be more powerful than Goku by way of some retarded writing, Goku could hold his own well enough, since his defense is shown to be superior/equal to Superman’s (I’m not even sure Superman could penetrate his Ki Shield), and his speed greater, as well as his fighting skill.
This isn’t a popularity contest or a power exhibition. It is a battle scenario, one in which I believe my argument proves Goku could win against Superman. The sneezing image is merely similar to what Kid Buu did, and the impossible seeming planet pulling mean little to me, especially since actual Physical Strength is but one aspect in a list of equally important combat factors in which I believe Goku is equal/superior. However, your story about Lois blinking and whatnot sounds much more impressive. Do show scans, if you can, so I may comment. Please.
And that’s your opinion alone, Paragon. I believe speculation in a speculative battle is perfectly placed, as long as there is some basis for said speculation, since that’s really all that we have to go off of on certain issues, more so for certain characters. Superman just throws everything out there with its bad storytelling, leaving little to the imagination, where as something like Final Fantasy will leave you wondering (I don’t wanna get into what’s better than what though, but obviously I think little of Superman, but I try to be as unbiased in my arguments as humanly possible.)
OKAY. This post is a bit long…forgive any errors, and missed/misconstrued/whatever points.
Paragon, I disagree with your definition of canon and would like to know from where this definition comes. Besides, everybody knows what is and is not canon is not always clear, otherwise there wouldn’t even be debate on the subject.
I’m not just saying a Kamehameha would kill Superman just because I think it would. I just haven’t seen him withstand anything of such magnitude. I heard he was nearly killed by the power of nuclear bombs (not the effects of it, but the power; I heard it tore the flesh from his bones leaving him nearly a skeleton).
Speaking of which, there’s a matter of inconsistency present in American comics which generally far exceeds that of manga. For example, why is it that artillery shells no longer pierce Superman? Sure, DBZ has its moments, but nothing so great as something like this. Is there a given reason or is it just, hey, let’s write him stronger now? I don’t know enough about Superman, so I’m asking here.
I did compare their speed just fine, stating that since Goku’s speed is unsurpassable that Superman is not faster. Sounds like I did a fine job, but maybe not. *shrugs*
When it comes to the matter of strength, it is far more speculative. Sorry I can’t provide to you a smoking gun. This doesn’t make your case, though.
I hope you’re not talking about me with all of this, because I never said “SEE HE’D WIN LOLOL.”
…Granted, many DBZ fans are lacking in logic. I did see someone say something about Goku going SSj12 if he wanted to and killing Superman in one shot, just because he said so. Then again, I seen similar stupidity from Superman fans. Meh.
Oh, I just remembered that Muhammad Ali, while close in Physical Strength to Superman, defeated him, knocking him out due to superiority in Fighting Skill. Furthermore, I heard that Antonino Rocca manhandled Superman, and on the cover, is shown throwing a dazed Superman out of the ring. I do not know if Antonino Rocca actually fought and overpowered Superman or not since I cannot find much information on the subject, but I’m also unsure of the legitimacy of the canon involved in those comics. Perhaps you could help shed some light on the subject, Paragon.
Assuming they are canon, it is obvious that Superman is nowhere near Goku’s level in Fighting Skill. Physical Strength or not, it seems Superman fights like a girl.
Ok I like to add something for both Paragon and BearerOfBadNews to look at In the TV specle Bardock father of goku its is shown that Bardock is able to breath in space and there is a seen in the normal DBZ anime in which we see Vegeta breathing in space too so with that being said why can’t goku do the same?
I like to add that nobody is qualified to judge anything like this cause this not something you can be qualified for see. What did I say that makes you think I am not qualified to judge this anyways if you don’t mind me asking?
I am unsure of the legitimacy of the canon contained within “Bardock: The Father of Goku.” As far as I am concerned, it is canon, but I do not know how it is regarded within the community.
As for Vegeta breathing in space, I do not know for a fact if that is anime filler or not.
Assuming both or either are canon, perhaps they knew of a way to breath in space, at least temporarily (perhaps they created a Ki Shield, and oxygen was contained within). Perhaps also, they are merely holding their breath, or something else entirely. Speculation.
If it is certain that neither of those instances turn out to be accepted as canon, then I’d say it is safe to assume that Goku does not have the ability to breathe within space, or at the very least, if he does, then he doesn’t know how to use it.
For the record, although generally considered non-canon, Broly saved his father and himself by creating a Ki Shield, keeping oxygen within. Despite its canonicity, the theory in and of iteself seems sound within the Dragon Ball Universe.
When all is said and done, we all make our own judgments, of which we are perfectly qualified to make. I suppose the closest thing to a winner we will determine here is whoever can provide an indestructible argument. Even then, it only means that nobody present can present such an argument.
I debate for fun anyway, and I believe that I am right, so I’m having a ball. =]
well so far I belive you are going to out wit Paragon BearerOfBadNews. But you know he keeps using these things on you he ether says where is your proof of this show me an image, its non-canon, or goku can’t breath in space. Stuff like that but I am sure you got this in the bag so to speak again good luck to you and. Please for the sake of all goku fans out there that can’t provide a good argument like you please keep it up BearerOfBadNews.
Time to clear up if Akira Toriyama did or did not have anything to do with Dragonball GT I have found info on this I will post what it says here plus the link for where I got the info enjoy.
“Canon Debate and Inconsistencies/MistakesEdit
Main article: Inconsistencies#Dragon_Ball_GT
Some do not consider GT canon due to the fact that this series was not directly written by Akira Toriyama. Additionally, GT was not originally produced as manga, like its predecessors Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Finally, GT contains several events which are inconsistent with its predecessor series.
Though Toriyama did not personally write GT, he did strictly oversee its production. This was the same process that was used during the production of the anime series Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Characters and events from GT have also been included in more recent Dragon Ball video games. With regards to inconsistencies, GT in fact has the least inconsistencies of all three anime series, making it difficult to cite the few that exist as reason for the series to be set aside as non-canon.
Toriyama seems to have positive feelings towards his works’ continuation, as he drew his version of Super Saiyan 4 Goku, exclusively for the GT Dragon Box.”
“what with Frieza’s ability to destroy a planet with his strength, and with Goku lifting cities, I don’t know how much further they can go to prove something to you. *shrugs*”
^ Again, proof or GTFO.
And ugh. Did you not read my post defining what canon is? Seriously. Pick up a dictionary and find out. In Superman’s case, the intellectual property rights to that character are owned by DC. Therefore they get to set what is canon. It’s the same with Peter Pan. JM Barrie gave the copyright of Peter Pan to Great Ormond Street Hospital, therefore they get to decide what’s canon. TV shows have multiple writers working on them. Does that mean only the original writer gets to decide what’s canon and what’s not? Nope. Seriously, if you don’t even know how a canon works, you’re not even worth debating against. DBGT isn’t canon. The entire history of Earth-One Superman is. Deal with it.
And LMAO! “Canon doesn’t hinge upon the original creator or the media”? Oh okay. I had just now written a fanfic where Goku got hit by a pebble and died. It’s now canon that Goku is dead and was actually so weak that he can die from pebbles. Seriously, throw all logic out, why don’t you? I mean, you’re ignoring the VERY DEFINITION of canon. Seriously, get a dictionary and do some research. Canon is by definition all the original works of an author. In cases where there are multiple authors, it is defaulted to the intellectual property owner. I’m not gonna debate any further until you’re capable of realizing that. This part of the issue isn’t open for debate. If you’re going to ignore actual definitions of the word, then I can’t help you.
And I see the whole point of the TV analogy is lost on you. When you’re reaching for a remote to turn on a TV that’s only one foot away, the efficiency you get with the remote is lost unlike when you have to turn on a TV that’s fifty feet away. IT is the same principle.
Here’s the scan that proves Goku is hypothetically fast enough to dodge ki attacks. (http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7797/speed02.jpg) And in case it does hit, what are you talking about that I don’t have proof of Superman tanking anything like DBZ? Superboy Prime is himself a galaxy buster (see earlier scans) and Superman did take him on. QED.
And LMAO at your attempt to manipulate the scenario. How is that “fair” at all? Your definition of fair means catering to Goku’s weakness to the point of taking away one of Superman’s biggest advantage, essentially handicapping the character. In ANY hypothetical debates, the battle is fought where the characters aren’t denied any element that they normally have access to or else you’re giving another character a handicap and you’re putting them in a scenario where they don’t normally operate. THAT’s what’s fair. This isn’t up for debate either. This is how any hypothetical battle works. Ask ANYWHERE.
And lol your sources aren’t 2+2=4. It’s sad that you think it is. For example, find me proof that Freeza is a physical planet buster like you claim. And no, that’s not 2+2.
And OH EM GEE. You’re actually comparing this to a murder trial. You do realize that murder trials aren’t hypothetical scenarios? We’re dealing with pure speculation, so we need to have a grounded basis (read: hard facts). Yes, it’s acceptable to assume if certain things logically lead to that conclusion, but there is nothing that would logically lead us to them being physical planet busters. NOTHING. This isn’t up for debate either. That’s how it works. Otherwise, I’m free to spout anything I want and there’s really not much you can do to prove me wrong. Watch:
“There’s a page during the Buu saga where Goku admits to somebody (I forget who it was) that Cell and them were just bluffing when they said they were galaxy busters. In fact, the most they can do is destroy a planet. On the other hand, there’s an issue of Superman where he accidentally destroyed the entire universe by clapping and had to travel back in time to undo it.” Prove that wrong.
We go entirely by what we see. We never see any DBZ character destroying a planet physically or accidentally sneezing a galaxy away. Until I see proof or anything that LOGICALLY LEADS to that, then we’re not accepting it. THAT’s how a debate works.
And I love how you use the example of Unbreakable. What logically led you to believe that Bruce Willis wouldn’t have been able to lift an infinite amount of weight? “just because you show someone is capable of doing something, it doesn’t mean that someone else isn’t capable of it or something similar just because they haven’t shown it,” right? See how your own logic fails? The logic here is that you don’t see him doing it, ergo he can’t. Same with Goku moving a planet.
“No, I believe he can lift more than that because there’s no reason to think that he cannot.” <— LOL. Way to ignore my earlier scan where he couldn't lift 10 tons. First, let's start by proving that Goku can lift a city. Where's your scan of that?
(Didn't see that your post was done before seeing mine. I guess NOW I'll post with your other more recent post in consideration.)
LOL! You’d like to know where my definition of canon comes from? Grab a dictionary. Any dictionary. “My” definition isn’t up for debate. It’s what canon is. You wanna talk 2+2=4, this is it. Do your own damn research on this one, because this is too common sense. Look up issues regarding the Peter Pan canon, legalities of fanfiction, and the like. The canon is set by the author and/or the copyright owner. DEAL WITH IT.
As for Superman withstanding strong blasts and losing to Muhammad Ali and such, those were from a time when he was weaker, which is the “inconsistency” you’re talking about. (Which isn’t an “inconsistency” anymore.) The character’s been retconned to being weak to being extremely OP, to being weak again (which might’ve been where it happened), to being OP once more. It’s not exactly “inconsistency” since that inconsistency has been explained away to differing versions of the same character as being that character from a different universe. And they decided to get rid of all these contradictions by merging the multiverse together and “resetting” what’s canon over the years. As a result, the characters are changed through actual events in the story. (Look up Crisis on Infinite Earths and you’ll see what I mean.)
The scan of Superman tanking a planet exploding in his face is much more recent as is his fight with known galaxy-buster, Superboy Prime, so we go by that. For the record, Superboy Prime has displayed more power than a kamehameha ever has, so at the very least, you should assume that they are the same, that is, that Superman can take a kamehameha.
And yes, you not being able to provide facts to back up your case does make mine. It’s not speculative at all. I put up a scan that shows Goku unable to lift 10 tons. I then put up a scan of Superman moving over 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons (with barely a quarter of his strength back in his stronger incarnation). So there’s your facts that I laid out. Not speculation. Cold hard facts. You can’t disprove what I put up unless you put something else up that proves it otherwise.
Also, Bardock, Vegeta, and Broly breathing in space are all absent from the original source material and therefore not canon. (Well, Bardock was shown in something of a splash panel or something, but he wasn’t actually breathing in space.) Nothing in the original source material indicates that any Saiyan can breathe in space.
I have an idea just to make this all fair lets put goku and superman in a place that is a space full of nothingness. What is this place its in the world of DBZ but nobody gets an advantage there on ether side. Its is the hyperbolice time chanber lets use this as the battle field that way space can not be used on goku and superman can not play keep away. As any DBZ fan would know there is only one way in and one way out so lets already say that this door is now gone cause they both have entered the room and in getting ready for the fight superman and goku ended up breaking the door. So now nobody can leave now we all know that the futher one goes out in the chanber the more gravity there is. There is also no sun so superman can’t get charged up but there is nothing to help goku recharge ether. The way I see it this is a fair battle now sence its in a place nether side gets an advantage on.
I am also calling my friends in japan to see if they know of a way to send mail to Akira Toriyama not email but plan old mail. I am going to ask him if he might be willing to put GT in manga form and write his own version of the story line. So that means if he does which I really do not think he will but if he does. That would mean that if he puts in manga form and makes it his own story line GT would be canon then but only if he does that.
I have just look at the picture that paragon has saying that goku can only lift ten tons which is true but. What he seems to not think about is that this is before he has learned super sayian 2 or 3 and as goku has got stronger in his higher level forms his base form gets stronger so by the time he has learned super sayian 3 its safe to say he can lift more than 10 tons at base level.
Now I am not sure how much more goku can lift but any DBZ fan knows this to be fact that goku as he got stronger in super sayian his base form got stronger. So its safe to say that sence goku learned super sayian 2 and 3 he can lift more than 10 tons but its not known how much more but we know more than 10 is for sure.
but also I like to add that nobody even superman should be able to breath in space cause basied on real life there is no form of any breathing sorce in space it a huge vacume he should be ripped apart like anything else out there.
So in other words we can’t say anybody is breathing in space cause there is nothing to breath also superman can not talk in space no air to help him talk and nothing for sound to bounce off of there is so much wrong with superman’s world its not right on with real science but at least we know that people can be born with tails there is a man in india with one, we also know sprit power is real thanks to shoulin monks and they have used said sprit power to hit people from a distance but we can not see it, so nothing of superman can be basied on real life but most of dragonball z and dragonball cannot everything but a lot of things can be.
Sorry about my last post forget that is was typed my brother who hates any and all cartoons typed that he had to use my computer for something I guess looked in my history and found this. Anyways I am sorry for him posting such things so forget they were posted in the first place.
“I have an idea just to make this all fair lets put goku and superman in a place that is a space full of nothingness. What is this place its in the world of DBZ but nobody gets an advantage there on ether side. Its is the hyperbolice time chanber ….The way I see it this is a fair battle now sence its in a place nether side gets an advantage on.”
^ The fact is that you’re choosing a place where you’re deliberately giving Superman a handicap so that Goku can stand a very slim chance. It’s not a “fair” place at all. If you don’t see the problem with denying Superman the sun, you shouldn’t object to denying Goku air. A neutral battleground is one where they can go all out and where they aren’t denied elements that they ordinarily have access to.
“am also calling my friends in japan to see if they know of a way to send mail to Akira Toriyama not email but plan old mail. I am going to ask him if he might be willing to put GT in manga form and write his own version of the story line.”
LMAO! Toriyama wrote the story for Dragon Ball Online, and since it’s a direct continuation of DBZ that ignores all of DBGT, you can take that as Toriyama taking one big dump all over DBGT.
“I have just look at the picture that paragon has saying that goku can only lift ten tons which is true but. What he seems to not think about is that this is before he has learned super sayian 2 or 3 and as goku has got stronger in his higher level forms his base form gets stronger so by the time he has learned super sayian 3 its safe to say he can lift more than 10 tons at base level.”
^ Again, consider the large gap. He couldn’t have gotten more than a trillion times stronger. It’s illogical to think so.
“but also I like to add that nobody even superman should be able to breath in space cause basied on real life there is no form of any breathing sorce in space it a huge vacume he should be ripped apart like anything else out there.”
I never said Superman could breathe in space. AFAIK the current explanation is that he can hold his breath for a really really really really really long time. Like hours. I think maybe even days, which Goku was never shown as being capable of. Basically, Goku can’t survive in space. Period. Superman can long enough to beat Goku.
first off akira loved DBGT he him self said it. He gave it his blessing he even in a rare box set for DBGT drew his version of super sayian 4 if it was to appear in manga form. So Akira does not hate or crap on DBGT in fact the only reason Akira did DB online was just to make more money nothing more.
I also like to add that in DB online there is a majin race. I guess any DBZ fan would know this but Majin buu was made by magic there is no such thing as a majin race. There for plot hole in this being a real good continuation of DBZ. Cause that ingnore the facts that Majin Buu was one of a kind and made by magic.
You missed the point. DBO is a direct continuation of DBZ and ignores DBGT entirely. It wasn’t part of Toriyama’s canon before, but this puts the final nail in the coffin.
And you presume too much. You know absolutely nothing about the plot of DBO and you’re so quick to cry “plot hole” at something that Toriyama may have explained in the story? I mean, what if Buu had created the entire Majin race himself or something. Just because it’s not explained (and especially in this case where it may be explained eventually), it doesn’t mean it’s a plot hole. I really wish people would stop throwing that term around without knowing what it means.
But what you just said your self is that that the majin race is not explained. We can not make speculation in something like this I belive thats what you said youself Paragon. Untill it is explained all this is speculation so I belive we do not count DBO due to this loads of speculation can be made out of DBO.
Ugh. Are you completely devoid of common sense or something?
You’re taking what I said ENTIRELY out of context. I said you can’t base a hypothetical argument off speculation. Now you’re saying because we don’t have info on a very minor and insignificant detail regarding DBO, we can’t count it at all? Seriously. Think about what you’re saying there.
Regarding DBO, we know for a fact that Toriyama was greatly involved in supervising the story and art design. We know that DBO disregards DBGT. That’s all we need to know to prove that DBGT is not part of Toriyama’s canon.
What’s that? We don’t know why there’s a majin race? And you think that means we should ignore everything else we know about DBO? I seriously don’t know whether to laugh at the post or weep for the human race.
Hey I have you know I get payed to sit around on my ass all day and get payed why cause I have taken a government based test that says I am a genius. I also like to add weeping for the human race is looking down on your self as well. “He who knows nothing doubts nothing” old chinese saying. I hardly take part in such arguments but when I do I try my damn best to get my point out and out smart who ever I am up against be it you(Paragon) or somebody else. Dragon Ball GT began on Fuji TV at 7:30 p.m. on Wednesday, February 7, 1996 and DBO came out in Japan in 2008.
I like to note that most arguments do not use games to back up info being as its not part of the real story its not anime and its not manga. Canon or not DBO is not anime or manga its just a online video game. So it should not be counted I am not saying we should count DBGT but we should not count DBO for the fact its not anime or manga and. Most arguments do not use video games to back them up unless they people we are talking about only are on video games. EX Mario from well you know Mario games and Enzo from Assassins Creed 2 and BrotherHood. All that aside like I said we should not count it only based on what I said.
People like you real get on my bad side you know that Paragon. Somebody is going to get you in this argument when they do I hope you are willing to admit to being wrong. But for some reason Paragon I get you are one of them people that will never admit to being wrong no matter what even if god him self says you are wrong. We will see when that day comes and I feel it coming. I know it will but all we can do for now is keep putting post up back and forth. At least till this argument ends.
I like to add one more thing the Japanese do not like DBO. Its not successful there the japanese liked DBGT more than DBO. In fact most DB and DBZ fans both here in the US and in Japan like the idea of DBGT being the better continuation of DBZ. Akira himself liked DBGT more than DBO. The only reason Akira did not do the story line for DBGT was for fear it would not turn out well but it did.
He even did something for the rare box set for DBGT called The Dragon Box he did a picture of what Super Sayian 4 Goku look like in manga form. Akira only does DBO cause it made alot of money in Korea and still does but not loads in Japan. He only did it for more money he frowned on DBO. While DBGT is not canon or a perfect continuation of DBZ its clearly more popular than DBO and more widely accepted as the true continuation of DBZ. This facts from all around the net.
You, genius? LMAO! I’ve never laughed so hard my entire life.
Hey genius, have you never heard of this little thing called dictionary? It has definitions of words. Look up canon. See how it defines it as original works of an author? Yeah, nothing about excluding video games. Quit pulling stuff out your ass. Fact is that Toriyama personally supervised the story of DBO and DBGT was all Toei. So DBO is canon, like it or not.
And lol. You think it actually matters if Japanese people didn’t like DBO or why Toriyama actually made it? LMAO! Here’s an answer: NO, IT DOESN’T MATTER. FACT IS THAT TORIYAMA SUPERVISED THE STORY OF DBO AND IT CONTRADICTS DBGT. SINCE THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR WROTE IT HIMSELF, IT IS PART OF HIS CANON. Dispute that, genius.
And just to preemptively rid myself of repetitive idiotic arguments, regarding the issue of what’s canon in comic books–comic books get plenty of authors due to the nature of the medium, but each author’s run is not treated as its own canon. The same goes for television shows. Multiple writers work on different episodes of a show, but we don’t treat them as completely separate canons.
This is somewhat more of a legal issue because the “author” is regarded as whoever owns the copyright, or as I said earlier, the intellectual property owner. This one, you can research online yourself, genius.
First off I have never heard of the word Canon untill I started on this argument. Like it or not I am in fact a genius lets get the out of the way. Next count DBO if you want cause for one that wants to use it in this seems to not know alot about it. Like it or not Goku wins this not cause I say he does not cause people come on here and say goku does this and superman dies. He dies cause the facts say so here is something you clearly do not not think about.
Fact 1 most anime/manga do not use real things alot to define speed, strength, or power. Most american comic books do so there is no real way to say it goku can or can not move the earth for one. There are times in anime/manga when somebody says to quote piccolo “if he wanted to he could destroy the planet with his strength this is child’s play for Freeza”.
There we have it showing that while we do not see Freeza being able to do it we have a person from the anime saying that he can do so. Sometimes we have to use little things like to show that somebody can do stuff like that.
This also means that we can use stuff like this to tell what another persons strength is with out seeing it. Get it Paragon if you do not agree with this then you your self sir and I quote ” are an idiot”. So if you do not agree then get out of this post and do not return under any other name. There is no room for people like you in this pro-superman or pro-goku side.
1. Strength is synonymous to power. Piccolo doesn’t have to mean “physical strength.” This isn’t proof at all since the statement is too vague.
2. In fact, you’re taking the sentence out of context. If you do consider what’s going on, you’d realize that Piccolo isn’t referring to physical strength. The context of the conversation is that they were considering Freeza’s last attack. Check out the pages before that. Freeza delivers a huge KI ATTACK. Not physical hit, but a ki attack. Krillin is impressed by it. That’s when Piccolo basically says that that was nothing if you consider that Freeza can destroy the planet with his power. It makes no sense to assume that Piccolo is talking about physical strength.
3. You want more proof that it’s not physical strength that they’re talking about? This creates a huge discrepancy with my earlier scan. You’d agree that Goku, at his base in the scan I posted with him lifting less than 10 tons is stronger than Freeza, yes? How is a person who can’t lift 10 tons capable of destroying the entire world through physical strength alone?
4. Why do people who clearly know nothing about Superman act so sure that he would lose to Goku when they know nothing about him?
Listen this is not my proof that goku could or will win. I am only showing that because DBZ and most other anime/manga do not use real life things like MPH or faster than a speeding what ever to say how strong one is. By the way when I was using that chapter of the manga I was showing that they use stuff like that to judge how strong one is or how fast one is. Next when I say power I mean there ki energy not how much they can lift or push. Lets get that out of the way.
Next much can be said about you when it comes to goku you don’t know alot about goku. I can tell you how ever that I am doing my damn best to learn anything I can about superman from his begins to modern day comic, cartoons, and movies animated and live action. I am sure that I will find one flaw in superman that would change this out come. Everybody has a weakness even the most powerful version of superman does he must. Goku has none listed but I am sure he does too.
Now goku will win this even if its the last thing I do by the way did you know that superman showed up in Dragonball as a short fat guy he had all superman’s powers but was clearly weaker than goku as a kid look him up. I belive this was Akria’s way of laughing at superman as a hero when goku is clearly a better hero.
“Listen this is not my proof that goku could or will win. I am only showing that because DBZ and most other anime/manga do not use real life things like MPH or faster than a speeding what ever to say how strong one is.”
^ It doesn’t mean we can’t gauge them at all. And there are parts that do gauge them. Like how base Goku can only lift 10 tons compared to how Superman can push/pull 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons.
“Next when I say power I mean there ki energy not how much they can lift or push. Lets get that out of the way.”
^ LOL. The argument earlier (I don’t know if it was you or BearerOfBadNews and I’m not gonna read through it to see since it doesn’t matter) was that that page supposedly proves that Freeza is a physical planet-buster. I’m just pointing out how false statement that was.
“Next much can be said about you when it comes to goku you don’t know alot about goku”
^ LOL Except you can’t say the same. I know a lot about DBZ.
“I can tell you how ever that I am doing my damn best to learn anything I can about superman from his begins to modern day comic, cartoons, and movies animated and live action. I am sure that I will find one flaw in superman that would change this out come. Everybody has a weakness even the most powerful version of superman does he must. Goku has none listed but I am sure he does too.”
Well, to help shorten your efforts, only the comics is considered canon. And yeah, Goku has weaknesses listed. I listed them all up there. You’re just ignoring them.
But anyway, since you apparently have yet to find any, why don’t you just agree for now that Goku is indeed weaker, hm?
“Now goku will win this even if its the last thing I do by the way did you know that superman showed up in Dragonball as a short fat guy he had all superman’s powers but was clearly weaker than goku as a kid look him up. I belive this was Akria’s way of laughing at superman as a hero when goku is clearly a better hero.”
^ LOL Wrong on so many levels.
One, Toriyama drew Superman in Dr. Slump not Dragonball.
Two, Dr. Slump parodies LOTS of things regarding Japanese and American culture, Superman just being one of them. Emphasize on the word “parody” in case you don’t get it.
Three, Toriyama himself stated in an interview that DBZ is an homage (not a parody, but an homage) to Superman, when he made Goku have practically the same origins as Superman. I don’t have a link to that interview, but you can google it yourself. Seems to me that you need to learn how to research your information anyway, “genius.”
So if we go by (failed) logic, since Goku is actually an “homage” to Superman, doesn’t that make him lower than Superman?
I like to add that the biggest Genius was looked at as a retard. Now I am going to trust that you know who that is so lets not talk about that. Next a funny short fat version of superman did show up in Dragonball here is the link eat that mister I think I know everything about anything http://blastr.com/pics/DragonballList2.jpg now sense I clearly can’t get you to think other wise. I am just going to leave it at this. I belive goku will win only cause the facts say so. Now you can keep saying that superman wins cause he can move this or his heat vision has done that or what ever. Bear in mind that I do research in other things besides this I am researching spirt energy. Most people belive that its just a state of mind and nothing more. I am working on a way to see it gauge it and how to use it for other things besides battle like the shoulin monks do.
Suppose Goku and Superman are both trapped by magic in an alternate dimension. The dimension contains breatheable air and a ground plane and its inhabitants are, by magical fiat, kept constantly satiated and unaging. Both Goku and Superman are informed by whatever godlike being transposed them that they will only be freed once one defeats (read, knocks out or kills) the other in an honest fight. More magic is used to read each combatant’s mind: if it turns out they are not fighting to their full capacity or otherwise trying to cheat, the scenario instantly resets. Any lasting harm caused by the fight up to and including death is magically repaired. Only a minute passes in the real world no matter how long the fight takes.
The dimension probably extends endlessly in all dimensions and has an earthlike ground plane which may or may not be indestructible down past a certain point.
Also late, but Superman’s ostensible ability to travel through time is not really relevant to the debate. Time travel isn’t one of Superman’s powers the same way that heat vision is – it’s just what Superman’s writing team thought the logical consequence of going incredibly fast was. If Goku were written in the Silver Age DC comics universe then he could travel through time just as easily as Superman, for the same reason that if Superman were to die in the Dragon Ball Z universe he would appear in heaven with a little halo floating over his head.
It’s also untrue to say that Superman has countless powers and devices. He actually has only a few discrete powers, and he does not walk around with a utility belt of superscience inventions. He’s theoretically capable of designing and building all manner of things, sure, but while he can do it infallibly and at incredible speed he can’t actually do it instantly. Indeed, since Superman’s speed certainly does not significantly outstrip Goku’s, there’s no real way that Superman could bring his ability to construct devices into bear, for the same reason that a mortal scientist confronted by a mortal martial artist can’t win the confrontation by sitting down at a workbench and fabricating a revolver from raw materials.
“I like to add that the biggest Genius was looked at as a retard. Now I am going to trust that you know who that is so lets not talk about that. Next a funny short fat version of superman did show up in Dragonball here is the link eat that mister I think I know everything about anything”
^ And did you not read my post? You know who that is next to Suppaman (not Superman, by the way)?
One, that’s Arale (with Gacchan). She’s from Toriyama’s Dr. Slump, not Dragonball (although she did make a cameo appearance). AFAIK that particular scene is from Dr. Slump, not Dragonball.
Two, Dr. Slump parodies LOTS of things regarding Japanese and American culture, Superman just being one of them. Emphasize on the word “parody” in case you don’t get it. It’s a parody of Superman named Suppaman, not Superman himself, in case you didn’t know that.
Three, that means, that in the end, this version of Superman is not canon anyway.
Four, Toriyama himself stated in an interview that DBZ is an homage (not a parody, but an homage) to Superman, when he made Goku have practically the same origins as Superman. I don’t have a link to that interview, but you can google it yourself. Seems to me that you need to learn how to research your information anyway, “genius.” So if we go by (failed) logic, since Goku is actually an “homage” to Superman, doesn’t that make him lower than Superman?
I am tired of this I should work on my research more than sit here and say if goku would win or not. Like it or not I am a genius like most things this is not worth my time or my effort. I make way to much money to take time out of my day to talk about something like this. So you paragon can talk about superman beating goku all day if you want and not get payed anything for it. So I say goku wins and you say superman wins. You show hard facts I show what I can when there is not much to show of goku win or lose. I am going to get all rights to goku one of these days and make him strong enough to win. No wait never mind what is the point of all of this. Buying the rights to goku thats a waist of money. Same goes for buying the rights to superman or any other comic book super hero or anime hero. I do know this there is some sort of fact that will show that superman loses I may not ever find it but some one will who I don’t know but some one. One thing you seem to forget is this a genius stands by his research no matter what.
“I do know this there is some sort of fact that will show that superman loses I may not ever find it but some one will who I don’t know but some one. One thing you seem to forget is this a genius stands by his research no matter what.”
^ So basically you’re saying, “I think Goku will win. I don’t have proof that he will win, but I will stand by it because I know proof exists somewhere out there even though I may never find it.” I think there’s a frame of that quote mounted on every fanboy’s office or something.
LOL @ buying the rights to Goku just to make sure he’d win. Fanboyism at its best.
You’re making me laugh so hard with this genius thing. Genius, you haven’t done that much research. I gave you evidence, you ignored it in lieu of your nonexistent evidence that you’re somehow sure that you’ll find someday. That’s not standing by your research. That’s just being a stubborn fanboy. You have nothing to debunk my argument, ergo my side is the victor.
Paragon victor ha I laugh you are no victor for I have a life. You want proof of that here it is you only beat me in this only cause you have nothing better to do than sit here and show me your worthless research that superman wins. My bad hell I don’t even call this research it nothing but nerdlogy what do I mean is that you are clearly a nerd and if you don’t the roots of english logy means the study of. What does this mean its only stuff that nerds and care about. If you think I am a genius ok if not ok it does not make one little difference to me. To add 2 more things if you still belive you have what you call victory its an empty victory next do not think that a nerd or a geek or a dork are the same thing as a genius. A Genius uses his mind for more important things to better others lives and make things easy and to move forward. The other 3 are like you use there mind for crap that does not matter enjoy the empty victory and this empty victory does not make you smarter than me it only show you have nothing better to do than use your worthless knowledge of crap. To make you feel better than others when you clearly are not. As the old saying goes the pin is mightier than the sword or in this case the keyboard is mightier than the sword. I can say this in 44 different languages never underestimate me.
I also like to add that unlike most Genius’s of the world. I am trained in almost all styles of the asian martal arts. So not only can I kick you ass in a mental way I can do it also in a physical way. Now I am not saying this to make you think I am going to track you down or something what be the point of it. I gain nothing by doing so kicking your ass give me nothing hell it would not make me happy but it would not make me sad ether it be like breathing air to me just another everyday thing. I bet your not even close to my age now I can ask how old you are but I am willing to bet you will lie to me on that for all I know you maybe at best 13 to maybe 15 or 16 the way you type makes me think so. If you are older than me than it tells me you waisted your life thats for sure. If your younger than me it tells me you have no life but you can change. You don’t need to listen to me I lost a fight that again does not matter weather I win or not. Well have a nice well I can’t say life cause you don’t have one.
Oh oh oh! And there it is, folks. The “I have a life” card! In case you folks aren’t familiar with it, it’s the card that losers in an argument play to try to squirm out of an argument by trying to make themselves look like a better person through the presumptuous assertion that anyone who spends some time debating on the internet must not have a life, not only failing to realize the fact that they too have engaged in that exact similar behavior, but that they have absolutely no idea how much time the other person invests in other activities. No sir, forget all that, they win the argument because they “have a life,” and surely their opponent must not. I love it when people play this card.
Oh, and genius, “-ology” is the suffix for study of. Not “logy.” So it would actually be “nerdology,” not “nerdlogy.” (Except even that wouldn’t make sense. I mean, “the study of nerds?”) If you’re gonna insult somebody’s intelligence, make sure you don’t look like an idiot when you’re doing it, genius.
And lol at the “pin” being mightier than the sword. We all ought to be seamstresses then. And yeah, I’ll call your bluff and ask you to say it in 44 different languages. Or hell, you don’t have to do all 44. 15 would be fine.
And OH EM EFFIN GEE. I completely lost it when I saw your second post. First bragging about your intellect, then claiming you’re the only one that has a life, and NOW you’re trained in all styles of Asian martial arts?! (And you can beat me up with it? Oooh. Sooo scary. lol) You’re certainly pulling out all the stops with your bragging. LMAO. Next, you’ll be telling me that you get a new lady every night, drive a Ferrari, and have a giant Japanese mecha sitting in your garage.
Okay, listen here. I don’t see why you’d make a point about my age when you’re CLEARLY the one who’s under 16. Maybe even as young as 13. For one thing, you’re too immature when it comes to communicating online.
By that I mean that a mature person would know better than to brag needlessly about being a “genius,” having a life, being able to beat somebody up (over the internet lol), and being hung like a horse. (Here’s a little tip. The more you brag about things on the internet, the more likely people are to not believe your claims.) Really, all that is POINTLESS. ESPECIALLY on the internet where all you are to anybody is a username. Attach whatever traits you fantasize yourself as having, you will NEVER be more than a username.
Which is why you shouldn’t be taking all this this personally. I posted a solid argument and you couldn’t come up with anything decent to counter it. Don’t think less of yourself and feel the need to salvage your ego by claiming you have the brains of Einstein and the wushu skills of Jet Li. Just don’t. Because THAT’s what’s making you look pathetic really.
You lost the argument and you have nothing else to say regarding the argument? Then just go. How hard is that?
Okay ass hole thats it I am 20 years old I will be 21 feb 3 of this year. I am also married I have no kids. I drive a 1996 ford mustang. At times when I type fast I make a few spelling errors and do not fix them. Belive what you will Paragon you have no idea who I am I have met people like you in real life and I have beaten every one of them in a physical fight. I would never say I am as smart as Einstein I respect the man far to much and next I would never compare myself to Jet Li I like Bruse Lee more but thats besides the point I am not as good as Bruse Lee ether or Jet Li I maybe close to there skill level how ever. Next I have never been one to talk about my penis over the net or in person. I feel that makes one less of a man. I don’t care if people belive me or not ether way its true like it or not. I will not take on your challenge to say what I said in 44 other ways. Why? Cause odds are knowing you. You will say you just used google or something like that its not worth it. By the way walk up to me and say what you did to my face and that will be the last thing you will want to say to me I don’t take stuff like that laying down. The thing that really set me off is how you comment you are a cocky person that needs a good ass kicking that is a for sure deal. I wish I could be the one to give said ass kicking to you but odds are you are younger than me and even if you do need this ass kicking its not worth me doing it and going to jail over it. I am in no way trying to get out of this I would like to stay in this but I have no way too cause yes I have lost a battle that had no meaning to start with I was only looking for a way to beat that cocky way out of you. But I failed at that too as it stands. If you comment one more time in a way thats sound cocky then so help me god. Man I am pissed and I should not be this is like a 5 year old who thinks they know everything trying to make him self look better than me. You know what I am being the bigger man and ending this I will now leave and no longer look at what you type so say what you wish but I will not come back to see well then again maybe I will but I will not reply. I will let you feel better than me what ever makes you feel like your the bigger man. You got what you want enjoy.
PS this was my first internet argument and it is now my last cause I can not find somebody on the net that knows how to talk in a nice way. To many people fight on these thing like 2 geeks fighting over a rare card of some sort. I knew this was a waist of my time but no I had to try this I had to sit here and talk about my thoughts on why I belive goku would win and not superman. I better not waist my time anymore Paragon enjoy I will let you do what ever you are going to do. So call me a name or make threats if you wish but this is not something I should be putting my time into I only tried this to see if I would like it or atleast do good at it but nope thats not the case. This was all a waist of time my time of all things I had to waist it had to be my time I will not get it back. Well never more I say I will move on I need to block this site after you reply to my post I will read it and then if I do not like it o well but I will block this site so not to reply to such things good day paragon.
So you’ve met other people like me irl and beat them up? Oh noes. lol @ Mister Internet Tough Guy
I was gonna reply a bit more, but man, you sure do like to get defensive and talk about yourself a lot, and this has gotten way off-topic. So I’ll just sum it up.
I don’t know if it mattered to anyone, but sorry that I haven’t posted in about a week or so. I’ve been rather lazy. Anyway…
On the subject of Canon:
Paragon, I present the Dictionary Definition of the word, “Canon.” Here it is:
“can·on1
[kan-uhn]
–noun
1.
an ecclesiastical rule or law enacted by a council or other competent authority and, in the Roman Catholic Church, approved by the pope.
2.
the body of ecclesiastical law.
3.
the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art: the neoclassical canon.
4.
a fundamental principle or general rule: the canons of good behavior.
5.
a standard; criterion: the canons of taste.
6.
the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
7.
any officially recognized set of sacred books.
8.
any comprehensive list of books within a field.
9.
the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic: There are 37 plays in the Shakespeare canon. Compare apocrypha ( def. 3 ) .
10.
a catalog or list, as of the saints acknowledged by the Church.
11.
Liturgy . the part of the mass between the Sanctus and the Communion.
12.
Eastern Church . a liturgical sequence sung at matins, usually consisting of nine odes arranged in a fixed pattern.
13.
Music . consistent, note-for-note imitation of one melodic line by another, in which the second line starts after the first.
14.
Printing . a 48-point type.”
Now, I don’t think that 1-5 have any relation to our issue. I also don’t think that 6 can be twisted to fit either of our arguments. Now 7, that’s pretty close to what we’re looking for. Albeit not sacred, the point of OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED SET OF BOOKS does come pretty close to helping clarify our issue, although I don’t think that I necessarily agree with the limiting term “books.” I think that any officially recognized form of entertainment (games, books, ect.) that can fit into canon properly (without significant inconsistencies) in also considered canon. GT doesn’t clash with DBZ, and it IS officially recognized and did have Toriyama’s supervision and approval. Sounds like canon to me. Let’s keep going.
And number 9? “Works of an author” is mentioned. Here’s the site’s first listing for the word, “Works.” Here: “Exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something; labor; toil.”
Toriyama exerted himself in an effort directed to the production of Dragon Ball GT. He did not toil in vain, as his goal was accomplished. Sounds like the works of someone to me; although technically not the author, Toriyama was involved with GT during and after its production. And GT is an authentic work…
Well, 11 doesn’t fit. Actually, neither do the rest, right up to 14.
So, what about Superman? I didn’t read anything about “intellectual property owners” or anything of the like you presented in your defense of Superman’s comicbook canon in the definition, so it looks like according to the Dictionary, a lot of Superman’s comics aren’t canon. Most, in fact. Unless you’d like to point out to me where I’m misunderstanding something, from my point of view, GT is still closer to canon than the vast majority of Superman is.
Both Hasio and I have presented our proof of Frieza’s ability to Physically destroy planets. You tried dismissing it with some petty and twisted argument about how “strength” is synonymous with “power” or whatever and trying to twist the context to your liking, but the fact is, neither “strength” or “power” are synonymous with “energy”, “chi”, or “ki.” So Piccolo was speaking of strength, obviously of a physical nature, and you know it. Everyone knew Vegeta was capable of destroying planets, so why would they point out that Frieza is capable of doing the same and be surprised and astounded, especially when they themselves harbor the power to destroy planets with energy? Strength isn’t energy, and Piccolo meant what he said: Frieza was capable of destroying the planet with his strength alone. It’s the general consensus on top of what I pointed out, check the Dragon Ball Wiki. Stop arguing a point you lost. If I decisively lose a point, I’ll take it in stride. I suggest you do the same.
Yeah, your whole television scenario was flipped on you so now you say it is lost on me, so cool, let’s drop that one.
So Superman dodges some garbage thrown at him by who appears to be Doomsday. Good for him. I don’t know how fast Ki attacks go, but Piccolo’s Special Beam Cannon was said to be faster than the speed of light during the Saiyan Saga. I don’t know how much faster the blasts are capable of going by the end of Z, or GT, but it’s pretty fast I’m sure. How fast is Doomsday’s blast going? You know what? Who cares. Teleport Kamehameha (A.K.A Instant Transmission Kamehameha, Point-Blank Kamehameha, ect.) doesn’t rely at all on the speed of the user and the Ki’s speed doesn’t matter much at that range. For one, Superman wouldn’t expect it, and two, he likely can’t dodge it every time. Even if he does escape the blast, Goku could control it to chase him and then use it again as he outruns the blast. As it doesn’t seem likely to fail in the numerous ways it could be used, if one did hit, I’m thinking it would be over. All the evidence you’ve shown doesn’t point to him withstanding a blast from SSj4 Goku.
Here you are talking about Superboy-Prime being a Galaxy Buster, but that’s not the same as complete and total annihilation of the entire Universe itself (and besides, I don’t recall your evidence of Superboy-Prime destroying a galaxy, I could be wrong though, maybe you did). Universe Breaking is in a class of its own, and I want you to show me that Superman can do it. Even then, if he is capable of producing such power, it doesn’t mean he can withstand it as well, so I’ll need you to tell me why you think he can take it. DBZ characters can give and take.
Just because we’re taking away Superman’s advantage doesn’t mean we’re making it unfair. Nobody should have an advantage at all. We simply must place them somewhere that doesn’t cater to either character in any way, shape, or form. The characters must be on an even playing field at all times; no advantage, and no disadvantage. I mean, you said it your self:
“Your definition of fair means catering to Goku’s WEAKNESS to the point of taking away one of Superman’s biggest ADVANTAGE.”
We cannot have fair battle ever take place in scenarios like this. Superman’s ADVANTAGE becomes a WEAKNESS for Goku thanks to OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES. If Superman or Goku cannot win on their own, then they can’t win, period. No sun or space, no Spirit Bomb or Senzu Beans or ANYTHING of the like for EITHER character. Trust me, you don’t want Goku to have the ability to use his Universal Spirit Bomb, then dump his own energy into it, eat Senzu Beans, and repeat the process in the safety of Other Word/Hyperbolic Time Chamber until his attack is strong enough to destroy anyone capable of dying.
How about Instant Transmissioning to Namek and using the Namekian Dragon Balls, wishing for Earth’s Dragon Balls, Immortality, knowledge of his enemies weakness, and then an indestructable, Kryptonite Battle Suit, complete with Kryptonite sword and omniscience? Sound good to you? Or maybe someone else could think of something better. I’m sure Goku could. And he would use the Dragon Balls if he had to, hypothetically.
If this were Aqua Man versus Sandman, how can the battle ever be fair if it takes place on Earth at all? The Earth is comprised mostly of water, a horrible weakness of Sandman’s and a place in which Aqua Man thrives. UNFAIR. Take them somewhere WITHOUT water OR sand. This means Sandman loses his ability to utilize sand outside the amount that he normally contains, and Aqua Man cannot hide in water, and control creatures to combat and overwhelm Sandman.
You obviously do not understand the concept of fairness, Paragon. Maybe we should look up the definition. “Neither excellent nor poor; moderately or tolerably good: fair.”
You paint the unfair picture in Superman’s favor under the guise of fairness since he always has something backing him, giving him something, making him more than he really is. Superman is really a raging pussy under any circumstances which do not favor him. Goku is not, and you know this, and fear this. You fear fairness, a topic few tread upon in a debate of this type.
I am ignoring your scapegoat response to my example pertaining to a murder trial, and the proceeding nonsensical, dance-around-the-facts mumbo-jumbo about the Z Fighters bluffing or whatever. Grow up and debate with less sarcasm; it’s a veil for your growing fear is all.
No, Paragon. We do not go entirely by what we see. So sorry. That’s not how a debate works.
Either I poorly expressed my point concerning “Unbreakable” or you have misunderstood it. Technically, David Dunn can be argued as the most powerful fictional character, as his defense is absolute. However, that’s within his far more realistic universe and story structure. Galaxy Busting energy based techniques do not exist in his fiction, and therefore were not factored in. Although I have no proof, my common sense tells me he would not be able to survive…. you know what i give up you win superman is stronger
You’re being WAAAAAAY too technical. Do some research on copyright laws and what intellectual property means. Ask yourself why shows that have the DIFFERENT authors are still considered part of the same canon despite the fact that it goes against the definition you posted. Seriously, do more research on this matter. I was just being sarcastic when I said to simply look in a dictionary as it’s not that simple a matter.
If you don’t feel like researching, use common sense. Again, shows normally have different writers for each episode and yet it’s considered part of the same canon. Same goes for a comic book series. In cases like DBZ, you don’t even have a case to argue whether or not DBGT is canon because the original author has written a continuation of his series that completely disregards DBGT. It can’t fit into the same canon because it contradicts. Therefore it’s non-canon. It’s that simple.
And lol, my argument about the definition of strength isn’t “petty” at all. It’s nothing but the truth. STRENGTH IS SYNONYMOUS TO POWER. And I wasn’t twisting the context to my liking. LMAO! Read the volume. The context is as I said it. They were discussing the destructive capabilities of Freeza’s ki attacks. You have NOTHING to disprove that. If you really don’t want to argue points that you’ve lost, then _you_ shouldn’t be bringing this up. Fact is, there is NO evidence that Freeza (or anybody on DBZ for that matter) is a physical planet buster. All of a sudden you want to use “common sense” when you didn’t want to before. Again, using common sense, why did Cell, who was stronger than Freeza, decided to blow himself up instead instead of just punching the ground when he decided that he wanted to destroy the planet? Or Freeza and Buu for that matter. And how could base Goku, who can’t lift 10 tons, suddenly destroy the planet through physical strength alone? Seriously, you want to bring up using common sense? Apply it to those questions. There’s no physical planet busters on the show.
(And don’t bring up wikis into discussions. I can edit that myself and pass it off as general consensus. Wikis are not reliable sources.) And yes, the remote control analogy did go over your head. LOL How hard is it to understand? When you’re reaching for a remote to turn on a TV that’s only one foot away, the efficiency you get with the remote is lost unlike when you have to turn on a TV that’s fifty feet away. Instant Transmission is the same principle.
Also: “if one did hit, I’m thinking it would be over. All the evidence you’ve shown doesn’t point to him withstanding a blast from SSj4 Goku.” LOL. How destructive is Goku’s kamehameha in the first place. Is it more destructive than a red sun, which Superman can fly through despite the fact that it drains him of his powers? Fact is, you can’t even answer that question anyway, so why the certainty?
LMAO! Universe-breaking? Now you’re pulling huge chunks of crap out your ass. Since when did characters in DBZ become universe-busters. I’d ABSOLUTELY love to see you attempt to prove this. The biggest claim anyone’s boasted in DBZ was being able to destroy a solar system with a kamehameha and a solar system’s actually much smaller than a galaxy. PC Supes accidentally sneezed a galaxy away. Seriously, how can you even compare the level of power between the two?
“We cannot have fair battle ever take place in scenarios like this. Superman’s ADVANTAGE becomes a WEAKNESS for Goku thanks to OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES.”
Jeebus, what the hell are you even trying to say? Ignore “outside circumstance?” What the hell? We should ignore THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE as we know it? Okay, so by that logic, why give them air? A breathable atmosphere is actually filled with all those oxygen atoms, which would be outside circumstance. By your logic entirely, let’s not give them air, mmkay? If anything, the emptiness of space is actually closer to a neutral battleground because there’s nothing out there to be counted as outside circumstance. So using your logic entirely, it actually makes more sense to start the battle out in space. Wait… Goku’s not moving.
Also:
“Trust me, you don’t want Goku to have the ability to use his Universal Spirit Bomb, then dump his own energy into it, eat Senzu Beans, and repeat the process in the safety of Other Word/Hyperbolic Time Chamber until his attack is strong enough to destroy anyone capable of dying.”
^ HAHAHA. Yes, I actually would. The result of that would be Goku draining himself of his energy only to find out firsthand that the spirit bomb didn’t work on Superman because he isn’t evil.
“How about Instant Transmissioning to Namek and using the Namekian Dragon Balls, wishing for Earth’s Dragon Balls, Immortality, knowledge of his enemies weakness, and then an indestructable, Kryptonite Battle Suit, complete with Kryptonite sword and omniscience? Sound good to you? Or maybe someone else could think of something better. I’m sure Goku could. And he would use the Dragon Balls if he had to, hypothetically. ”
^ LMAO. Now you’re just being completely irrational. One, you should know by now that no character can wish for omniscience. No dragon can grant that. Two, yeah, the guy who would rather give the villain who wants to destroy everybody a senzu bean to start off fresh would wish for a battlesuit and sword that exploits his opponent’s weakness. LMAO. Don’t you realize just how desperately you’re grasping at straws here? Three, no, he would not “use the dragon balls if he had to.” He’s had to so many times. Did he ever use it that way? NEVER. So it’s only hypothetically true if you’re being illogical. The logical conclusion, however, is that no, he really won’t.
“If this were Aqua Man versus Sandman, how can the battle ever be fair if it takes place on Earth at all? The Earth is comprised mostly of water, a horrible weakness of Sandman’s and a place in which Aqua Man thrives. UNFAIR. Take them somewhere WITHOUT water OR sand. This means Sandman loses his ability to utilize sand outside the amount that he normally contains, and Aqua Man cannot hide in water, and control creatures to combat and overwhelm Sandman.”
^ LMAO! It’s clear that _you_ are the one who doesn’t quite understand the concept of fairness. It’s a hypothetical battle. You won’t know the actual answer if you start to deny the characters things that they would ordinarily have access to because then you’re creating a VERY specific scenario. A general scenario is far easier to have as a battleground because then you can account for situational tactics. We don’t just go arbitrarily removing elements that gives the characters any advantage. That’s not how you establish a neutral zone at all. A neutral zone is one that gives BOTH characters ALL the advantages that they could have.
Also: “You obviously do not understand the concept of fairness, Paragon. Maybe we should look up the definition. “Neither excellent nor poor; moderately or tolerably good: fair.””
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You do realize that words can have multiple meanings, right? You’re basing your entire argument on the wrong one. The definition of fair that you’re citing is the one you’d use to describe something mediocre, as in “My test result was only fair.” It doesn’t mean we should only be giving a mediocre battleground and calling it “fair.” LOL
“You paint the unfair picture in Superman’s favor under the guise of fairness since he always has something backing him, giving him something, making him more than he really is. Superman is really a raging pussy under any circumstances which do not favor him. Goku is not, and you know this, and fear this. You fear fairness, a topic few tread upon in a debate of this type.”
^ ROTFLMAO! I’m not kidding. You’re seriously cracking me up. LOL I fear fairness. LMAO. No, I’m not trying to paint any picture at all. And I lol’d even harder at “a topic few tread upon.” Hardly anybody takes your approach because they realize how dumb it is. You have no good basis for setting up the fight the way you want to, arbitrarily removing elements that you find inconvenient. I’m setting it up on a place that is completely neutral in that neither characters are denied naturally occurring elements that they normally have access to. THAT’s fair.
My response to you comparing this to a murder trial isn’t scapegoating at all. LMAO. Again, you do realize that murder trials aren’t hypothetical scenarios? And way to completely miss my point there. And I just noticed that you completely ignored the content of my posts in all your responses. Every part of your post that refers to my post says that you’re just going to ignore what I said. Seems to me that you’re the one who’s afraid. LMAO.
“Technically, David Dunn can be argued as the most powerful fictional character, as his defense is absolute. However, that’s within his far more realistic universe and story structure. Galaxy Busting energy based techniques do not exist in his fiction, and therefore were not factored in.”
^ LMAO!!!!! I don’t think you realize just how much fail is in that post of yours. How can you say that David Dunn can be argued as the most powerful fictional character when you acknowledge that relative to other characters, he’s not that powerful at all? Uh, logic failure much? You never heard of the concept of relativity, have you?
You’d factor in abilities of other characters if you’re comparing him to other characters. If you’re not factoring them in, then you’re not comparing him properly. If you’re not comparing properly, no, he can’t be argued as being the most powerful character. I don’t get what you’re even trying to say here.
“you know what i give up you win superman is stronger
well played you win goku would lose”
this is stupid who cares who would win goku or superman. we will never know who will win cause one nether of these people are real and odds are nether of the writers of the thing will come together to make a comic or a manga or a anime or cartoon of them fighting. everybody on here can compare facts day in and day out and even if the fact say so does not mean they will win things can change the out come of any fight fake or real. do the facts say superman win yes but like I said things can change with just one freaky thing happening what might this be I don’t know it could be some random event. next this has been seen in history in real life and on a show called the deadlist warrior in cases where the facts show one is stronger and out classes the other and yet the other some how wins. so does goku have a chance yes only cause we may miss something in the facts one little thing what that could be who knows we also know that know that a freaky thing can happen too again what this is I do not know. so yes superman wins based on facts alone but sense we can not say if something odd would happen or we miss something that is key superman wins but only cause facts say so unless we missed something is what I am saying or something we can never factor in that happens ok.
Did you really think you were coming in with some big revelation and everyone would just suddenly gasp at the realization that neither Goku nor Superman are real or that there’s no existing crossover between the two? Everyone’s well-aware of that.
Yes I have I don’t think there is such a point to anything like this. I seen this and just wanted to drop in and say what I wanted to say I know that they are not real and I know that everybody on here unless they are a really little kid knows that nether of them are real. I also wanted to show that facts don’t always 100% show who win cause we can not factor in everything there are always freaky accidents in everything but from what we can factor in superman does win. Like I said how ever we can not factor in everything cause of freak accidents that happen. Also we have seen this in history and in other hypothetical situations. If you have watch a show on Spike TV called Deadliest Warrior they pair up people or groups that would never have fight in history due to certain events or cause of where they live in the world and there have been cases in said show. Where one is stronger and out classes the other and yet the other person some how wins. So based on this fact alone we see that goku has a small chance of winning too. Sad thing is Paragon we can not factor in everything so unless we can get this tested like they do on the show Deadliest Warrior we will not be able to truly say who will win.
You usually leave those things out in hypothetical matches. (The only time you don’t is when it’s common enough, like Deadpool’s teleporter constantly malfunctioning.) You can’t account for every variable, so in hypothetical matches, you only consider things that are consistent for the most part and assume that there are no “freak accidents.”
Well I do know that this is a hypothetical match and in the end this is where logic comes in. Real or fake all things can have a freak accident. Nothing ever goes 100% for goku or superman they have made a mistake here and there in a fight or just doing something. So we can say that in this fight it is possible for something to go wrong and it can put it in ether ones favor. How ever facts alone with out much logic applied superman does win. It is true we can not factor in every little thing that can or will happen but like I said freak accidents do happen in real and fake fights and said freak accident can put the fight in ether ones favor weather its already in his or her favor or not. So stand by this statement this along with my one before this unless we can test it like the show I said in the last post this match will never be 100% proven. I did say this facts alone with out much logic applied superman does win. For anybody that is wondering I am a goku fan but I will not say goku wins cause of this or that or superman wins cause of this or that. I am just saying that not all can be factored in. yes we can show how strong both are or at least guess at it based on pictures alone. We also can only use canon based stuff in other words no GT and movies and with superman none of the cartoons or movies so in other words with goku only dragonball and dragonball Z with out fillers and the manga and Dragonball Online with superman comic books only. Wow makes it harder when stuff that you would like to use is taken out on both sides talk about putting a limit on both. Yes Superman has been around for along time so yes there are loads of comics to get info from goku has only been around sence about the early to late 80′s to modern day. Both have changed alot over the years and superman till this day still changes goku has not changed sence the end of dbz unless you count GT which in here we don’t. Wow I really have gone way off topic let me get back to it like I said not all can be factored in thats what I am trying to say in short.
There’s a reason you have to call them “freak accidents.” That’s because they are improbable events.
And yes, “freak accidents” can happen, but again, its a hypothetical match. We’re not deciding who will definitely win, but rather, who has the highest chance of winning against the other. And since freak accidents are, by their nature, improbable, then we can ignore them in hypothetical matches. If the chance of these events happening is low, then we can’t use them to raise the chances of a certain character winning.
I see what you are getting at and yes any if not most of these freak accidents have a low chance happening. I was only putting this out here and here is what it is that while they are low they can happen odds of them happening are low and they can not be factored in cause we can not say what will happen to everybody every second of they day. None of us can see the future so only going off stats alone on both goku and superman its clear that superman wins but only cause with stats alone sence we can not factor in everything.
this is very hard to decide, Goku has amazing abilities due to his extensive training and his natural saiyan faculty. Take into consideration that Goku earned most of his abilities from him mastering his Ki and was taught quite a few tricks from his travels across the universe. If superman was granted the opportunity to use his Ki(every living creature has Ki same as Krillin, Yamcha etc)… and combined that with his natural strength, speed, heat vision and what not Supes would definitely win. Strip them of whatever training and Superman would emerge as a superior being. We could go the other way and throw them both in a ring and have them duke it out, obviously Goku would win. BTW, the senzu beans is just a scenario that could be played out, what would happen if superman ate a senzu bean… then what??? If you all want to have a fight that requires no further training then Goku should fight against Silver Surfer or someone in that class!!!
you guys clearly do not know about what superman prime can do. goku even at super sayian 3 can’t move a planet or much less destory 1 physicaly and ki does not count as physical strenght thats energy. we are only using canon versions of goku which means super sayian 4 does not count gt was not made by akira toyiama. the true contunation of the anime dbz is dbz online sence the story line for it was writen by akira toyiama. now with all that being said goku at base form can only lift 40 tons goku at super sayian 3 can only lift about give or take 50,000 tons not even close to what superman can. superman can move a whole planet something goku has never been able to do and never will be able to do. the time of goku getting stronger is over superman is older than goku and till this day is still getting stronger no more manga or episodes have come out for dbz and in dbz online is years after goku has past away and people can still only get up to super sayian 3 on there. goku can’t breath in space superman can goku can’t go faster than light in fact about top speed for goku is the speed of light thanks to IT but superman can go 4 times the speed of light way faster than goku. so lets see so far superman is stronger and faster lets go on. superman’s prime is on a god level he knows what is going to happen before it happens much like a god would his heat vision can get bigger than goku’s kamehameha wave and way bigger than goku’s sprit bomb. in fact superman has sneezed and accidently distoryed a whole galixy something goku can’t do and again never will be able to do so it seems supermans energy is also past goku’s level next I like to add that superman prime can go in a field kyptonite and not be bothered by it so there superman wins goku loses face the facts I love dbz but superman wins i like to add that goku was basied off superman something most dbz fans do not know.
“goku” and all the other JapCrap anime “characters” are a joke! Now someone please get yer panties all in a bunch and tell me how wonderful these poorly drawn, uninteresting Asian cartoon figures,are! It’s all POKEY-MAN B.S. (DELIBERATELY MISSPELLED)!
LOL not even a fair fight, how can superman match up to Goku?? Goku can beat superman while sleepwalking none the less wide awake and aware of the situation, lets not mention Goku’s amazing speed and power. Another think is Goku has no weakness unlike superman ans his pathetic weakness… And just for a FYI Goku isn’t human either he is in fact an alien, a peanut scented alien to be exact SO hands down Goku hands down will defeat Superman without breaking a sweet.
you people are stupid all of you superman prime wins goku will never win for the 100th time superman prime which is the best version of superman is god in alot of ways. next GT does not count rick it is non-canon. we only use canon versions of goku which is manga only movies do not count and the orginal DBZ does not count as it has fillers in it Dragonball Kai counts cause it sticks right with the manga of DBZ. Keyser Soze japanese cartoons look better than american cartoons and comic books why cause one they take pride in everything they do in there life they treat all there drawings like a master piece. the japanese put there heart and soul in to everthing why cause it is looked at as dishonorable if you do not. Gogeta you fell to look and read higher up superman can go faster than light in fact superman prime goes so fast you will never be able to clock it goku has been at max speed thanks to IT light speed at max goku loses and who ever pretends to be superman saying I will get my ass kicked wrong superman would win superman prime beats any and all cartoons and and comic book heros here is a list of his powers.
Creation – Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection – Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience – Superman Prime knows everything.
Omnipotent
Omnipresent – Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength – His strength is limitless.
Godlike Super speed – He can run or fly so fast it’s not comprehendible.
Godlike Super Scream
Godlike Super Smell
Godlike Xray vision – He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision
Flight
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance -
Godlike Super Dexterity
Godlike Invulnerability – Nothing can penetrate him, in fact nothing can hurt him.
Godlike Super Breath
Godlike Super Hearing – He is capable of hearing anything or anyone any where.
Godlike Giant Leaps – This ability could be connected with Flight.
Godlike Enhanced Underwater Breathing – He is capable of breathing under water for centuries. It could be possible that he can hold his breath forever.
Immortality – Superman Prime is immortal, therefore he can’t die.
Time/Space control – He has the power to time travel and warp space it self therefore he can also erase someone from existance if he wishes to do so.
I also like to add on that superman prime can fly in a field of kytonite and not be bothered by it at all so his weakness is no longer there ha ha ha. none of you know nothing about superman or goku you need to research both before saying this or that I see people that have atleast tryed or did really do there research such as Paragon being the best one on here so far. People that tryed or looks like they did Hasio, Matchstckgmr, and Bearerofbadnews. But goku loses get over it go ahead try any thing O goku gets the dragonballs what happenes superman prime ether makes them no longer exsits or warps back time and then stops it not happening and sence he knows everything he would know its coming way before it happenes. nice try dbz fans thanks for play the game but you all lose.
one more thing like I said goku was based off superman which again it goes to show most dbz fans do not know that nothing beats the orginal ever the maker/creator of dbz him self said he got the idea for goku from superman he loves superman but he never made goku strong enough to beat superman he just basied what happened to goku and his people off superman such as the planet blowing up, and coming to earth in a space ship and then being rasied by an old person see.
As much a fan as I am of superman… it’s really no contest.
For perspective:
Master Roshi (whose power level floats somewhere around the 200 range) was able to generate enough Ki in his Kamehameha to destroy the moon. That’s roughly equivalent to the total amount of energy generated by the sun in one second (that’s a lot)
Vegeta, with a power level of around 20,000, was easily capable of blowing up the Earth with his Garlic Cannon (Gallick Gun, if you prefer the anime to the manga)
Frieza, the most powerful being in the universe (before Goku and friends) was strong enough to destroy a planet -with a single finger-
(It should be noted that Goku later makes the comment that Freiza “wasn’t much of a foe”, and that someone with a comparable power level to his would be a perfect match for his 6 year old son, Goten)
By the Cell Saga, Goku had to angle his Kamehameha away from the planet, in fear of accidentally demolishing it
By the Buu sage, Goku had to deliberately control the rate at which he powered up, in order to simply prevent the Earth from being shaken to pieces (Buu himself was so strong, that he blasted the Earth into dust… on a whim)
Now compare the work ethic between Goku and Supes
Goku trains all day, every day. He even kept training after he died. Both times.
Superman has a day job
Goku is a master martial artist, having trained with Master Roshi (the greatest human martial arts instructor), GOD (Kami), the DEVIL (Piccolo), The Lord of this entire galaxy (King Kai), and the Lord of the entire universe (Kaioshin). He used to train in 100 times Earth’s gravity but decided that it wasn’t helping him that much so he stopped doing it. A Tyrannosaurus Rex would bore Goku completely (Gohan used to hunt them before he even started his training with Piccolo).
Supes… Has a mean left hook
goku can go to a super saiyan 800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
damn you are all dumb do you read the higher up post they should tell you who would win this is not way in in hell even if goku could fight till the end of time it self that he could be superman. you all clearly do not know a thing about superman and much less goku. for again must I say it goku was based off superman damn. the most powerfull version of superman is god not like kami in db, and dbz but real life bible god almost cause he just about can do all he can the only thing he has not done but can do is make the whole universe and all that live in it. you all clearly have no idea what superman is able to do goku can’t distory a planet using his physcal strenth he has to use ki superman can distory a whole galxy just by snezing and thats for real it happened in a comic so a planet be no problem. read his powers I posted higher up find away around them using goku’s powers.
First goku would win hands down…I wont cont gt becuz I hate the damn series to begin without u can seriously tell me goku would lose to superman…he canuse instantaneous movement and has the ability to fight while dead through baba wont use the dragon balls cuz that’s not fair to Sm bu he trains in under gravity conditions that exceed earth exponentially on numerous ocaisions. The spirit bomb wld never work Sm isn’t dumb he’d stop goku before he could form a spirit bomb of that magnitude but wen u bubble it downniethed of their powers matter becuz both can negate or block or doge the others fine so it will come down to raw fighting power like against doomsday and superman can not handle goku in this type of battle it wld take his brain to win but gokus dumb luck always prevails….and I kno toriyama never said he based goku on superman soooo yea goku wins…maybe they shld do a deadliest warriors about them
look as far as strength goes heads up til goku transforms the real problem 4 superman would be speed otherthan the obvious kai blasts not just one absorbed cannon shot besides suups takes 2 long 2 heal 4 this type of fight
There is really no argument at all here. i read somewhere that people voted over 80% that superman would beat goku. These people obviously have never seen any thing related to DBZ or GT. Goku would kill superman easily while having a great time and not breaking a sweat. Superman has cool heat vision tht melts metal. Goku can blow up a planet with a blast from his hand. Superman died from breaking his back if i remember correctly (not 100% positive) Goku would break his back and say oww. I love both characters but it is obvious this fight would be one sided towards goku. In fact good luck finding any cartoon hero that could beat him cuz i sure havnt seen one. Superman would lose to Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and even Uub. The other characters in the DBZ universe would get beat by superman in my opinion like trunks and goten but thts only because they havnt trained as much as their families have. But as for the four i mentioned earlier….ESPECIALLY GOKU superman sorry but you would not stand a chance.
For the record saying Goku was based off Superman is a very very dumb statement. He is completely different and was based on the main character from an old japanese story about a monkey boy. Not sure how that would be related to superman. You should learn everything about the characters before you comment on this argument.
You really should read my posts a lot higher up, Joe. A lot of the information you posted about Superman is dead wrong and shows that you don’t know much about him and did not do enough research to be a good judge on who the victor would be.
Also, yes, Goku in DBZ is indeed based on Superman. Toriyama said so himself. DB started out as an homage to Journey to the West, but by the time it got to what we know as DBZ, Toriyama made Goku’s origin similar to that of Superman as an homage to the hero. Like you said, “You should learn everything about the characters before you comment on this argument.”
Ok.Ok. Somepeople may say that Superman would pwn goku right? Ok Goku can punch into steel hell maybe through a dam planet made of fucking diamond.If superman tries to punch goku with his epic hands,goku is to fast to hit Someone said flash is the fastest,HELL NO goku is 5000000 times faster,the fastest speed ive seen flash go is 2-5 secounds to the other side of the planet,goku goes to the other side like 0.11111111111111111111111111,Goku has so much friggin energy we cant just say he would run out of it and if somehow if he did.Senzu bean.If superman tries to shoot him with his eye laser,goku would dodge ,Spirit bomb would Probaly do TONS of dmg to goku,And you cant say One of them would destroy the earth,there pure of heart so… SO OF COURSE THEY FUCKING WONT,And if superman does go into space We all no goku is smart enough not to go .Pro tip:if superman takes some Sun energy into full power,he knows he might destroy the earth,so he wont,and you might say they would Move the fight one a diffrent planet,The chances it having oxegon-(for goku) and a yellow sun(Superman) would be littile,and i beat superman would try to fight dirty after a while,I beat he wont land aa dam punch and if he does try to get some Sun energy(BOOM) smash him right on the ground.kyrptonit wont be needed,1. its rare to find 2. we dont have to time to search,All other JUSTICE league people is a diffrent story.i would say Batman would come close becuase hes a fucking genius,but probably wont even hurt goku.
It would be an epic battle only beecause goku would make it so. Theoretically if goku wanted to win like a bitch he just drain energy from the sun till the point super man would be defenseless or as he’s done before drain supermans life energy. Without the ability increase his energy Superman is a lame duck but like I said that goes against goku’s warrior code. So the fight would drag on for a couple hours until goku has something better to do like take pan fisging
Superman was literally beaten to death by a no skill no brained savage like doomsday and you would really think goku would fight supes like that. First of all goku most probably not fight supes once he realized supes has no fighting skills and in the end he would offer to becomes supermans master/teacher so one day superman would put. Up a genuine fight later. 2 superman is so used to fighting petty crooks and stopping liqueur store. Hold ups that he gets the crap kicked out of him when he fights someone whose a match for him doomsday the Cyborg superman conduit and they too have no real skills and if the cyborgs little energy attacks hurt supes. Imagine what goku’s attacks would do.
Super man is pretty tough to goku. But he will beg super saiyan 2. Super man is also an alien. He just having ET powers like strength, laser eyes, speed. But goku is fighting genius. Goku knows more fighting techniques and awesome kame meha. In dragon ball world super man is just an ordinary person. Goku, super man(saiyanji) of super man.
The thing about Goku is he had a heart disease that nearly killed him and he can die unlike superman. Superman can only be weakend by kryptonite. Goku might have the spirit bomb but, it takes a while for goku to charge it up, superman won’t give goku a chance. Also superman can use the lasers from his eyes after he freezes goku tosliceup goku into little pieces.
Okay everyone saying “goku will kill superman so fast…” blablabalbalabla
obviously hasent read very many supe comics. Im a fan of both DBZ and Supes. Yes if goku went ss4 and fused with ss4 vegeta he would definatley have the upperhand (i think)….BUT….if goku gets to do that Superman gets to go Superman Prime. Superman Prime has a suit (virtually indestructible) wich gives him extreme power. Superman Prime has destroyed a universe……goku destroyed a planet or two (dont remember) Superman Prime killed Doomsday (in an alternate DC universe) no problem. In my opinion Superman Prime wins.Heck maybe even just superman pissed of wins.
ps: superman prime is a BAMF.
goku can beat the fuck out of supermannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
goku will crush in less than a blink of an eye even if all the yellow suns in the world poor on to superman goku will just kick him into a planet made of kryponite goku can even call on krillin to kill superman i am not saying superman is not strong but i am saying that he is better of being goku apprentice so all u haters of goku just keep in mind superman cannot lay a finger on goku
Dudes and dudets look at this if robots made by lux Copperation… beat the fuck out of super man imagine a races with the power to destroy the planet no the freaking universe… but i would say its a tie cause you goku fan know how goku minds work he like tournament(matches strong opponents) he would kill superman, if superman was evil…. common goku can move faster than superman and hes stronger when goku fly the freaking city can be destroy xD LOL
Oh and sprite boom wouldn’t do superman nothing superman is pure heart remember when goku said to gohan as long as you got pure heart you can reflect it or something like that (go gohan NOW!!! do it!! *bounces off, hit vageta* MUAHAHAHAHA *vageta screems like a bitch*
DOROBO MAN @ Son Goku don’t have a tail no more -.-’ he lost it when he was a kid. His grandpa pulled it off, because he knew what happened when it was full moon. Son Goku don’t have any weakness. Or well, he likes food. But who doesnt!? .. Superman cant increase his powers. He is born with what he got. Son Goku is able to increase his powers by getting better at whatever he is practising. Son Goku would most likely blast Superman with a kamehameha, like Ants are blasted with a Magnifying Glass+Sun. There is really not anything to discuss here, Son Goku is far more powerfull then Superman. Thats just a fact
goku would win easy even if goku ran into a snag he would just fuse with vegeta and become ss4 gogeta who has unlimited power plus if it is a rainy day no power for superman
heres is the truth goku and supermans strength are close well almost until goku goes super sayian and above think about it superman picked up a small island and goke before super sayain stoped a piece of earth about 1.5 of an island when he transformed his strength and power multiplied by ten super man is roughly as fast as the speed of a bullet times 30 equaling around 30000 mph he raced the flash and it took about 10 min of the episode for them to run across the planet all the way to where they started the flash one by about 1 mile maybe 2 miles when gotnks went super sayain 3 it showed him fly across the planet in about 15 seconds so therefore its assumed that supersayain 3 could be that fast or close to that fast also goku can teleport superman away so the truth is goku is way more powerful then superman ever was but here is the end game truth he is not the strongest being ever created that trophy belongs to a character simply named the android which lex luthor had a non tech scientist create this being is able to completly duplicate anyones powers and abilities simply by looking and scaning them which takes him about 1 sec which he would most certainly do as soon as he meant goku making himself instantly as powerful as goku plus hed have the powers and abilities of anyone else with power and ability he ever comes across imagine buu asorbing technique that requires no absorbing just simple quick glance and boom hes now stronger then whoever he has to fight so the end game truth is the adroid has beat supermans ass before could easily do so again and would send goku quickly to the next dimension with ease in theory if he ever met god of corse of cartoon /anime world he would then be the new god of cartoon/anime world or at least thier equals so theres the truth and the most ridiculous character ever created here is where you can find him justice league unlimited season 3 episode 8 in this episode every super human from earth and villain stand a ground outside the atmosphere awaiting to stop him from reaching lex luthor he easily knock all of them out and get to lex without hardship
Most of the guys in marvel comics would get stomped by mid level dbz guys. Some of the top marvel guys- would probably defeat Goku. You have to factor in some rules though.
Where will the fight take place? Will Goku have home court advantage or not? If it is in the DBZ world then guys that punch their way into different dimensions would stand no chane. Goku is a stronger hitter than those guys by the time the entire DB saga ends…. that mechanic is just not allowed in DB. If Goku were to go to marvel he would retain all powers… why? Comic books have rules- and DB universe is horribly inconsistant(especially DBGT fuckin so inconsistent)… but comic books are even more inconsistent. They don’t have 1 rule to abide by…. so naturally all of Goku’s powers would transfer over to the comic universe- WHILE certain things are simply impossible in the db universe… so if Goku has home court advantage he wins almost every time if not 100% of the time. If he goes over to the marvel realm- there is a good chance some of the really top level guys would beat him.
Of course, if Goku were to somehow survive the fight odds are he would return and win. The harder the beating a Saiyan takes the stronger he gets. Key examples, in the db universe- Vegeta gets his ass kicked upon landing on Namek… but after he is healed in the heal pod- he fights the same people and beats them. A saiyans power has no limit, at the same time certain marvel character powers have no limit…. some guys come out of the gate blazing like Superboy Prime…. but I don’t know if any 1 marvel character has shown the capacity to improve the way a saiyan does.
Sorry- meant to say comics seem to have no rules. The marvel and dc universe is pretty much anything goes- so all powers apply. Where in the DB verse certain powers are just impossible- no matter how strong you are. Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta can easily destroy countless universes… but saiyans are born to fight. They are the embodiment of warrior spirit. How many guys can claim that if with every fight- they can beat their previous self. So the Goku that fought yesterday wouldn’t stand a chance against the goku of tomorrow… and the goku the day after would rofl stomp the other guys also.
What about magical powers that would cause Goku to go boom? I don’t think anyone in marvel has the short range speed of ss4 gogeta.
Certain inconsistencies have to be ignored for the sake of the fight. Like Goku being hurt by simple things like falling down… Future Trunks was able to slice Frieza in half… but couldn’t penetrate Gokus finger with his sword. People claim Goku can’t even take hot energy blasts or planet busters. Which is totally ridiculous- Gogeta SS4 can survive universe blasters.
Goku breaks the speed of light very very early in the DBverse- and his power by the end.. is an insurmountable number higher than it was at the beginning.
Goku will definitely win,especially if he was a super sayain 4!!!!!!! Superman will have to fight Goku on super sayain 2 level to make it even. Goku not only has strenght like superman,he has more abilities and techniques(ko ken,kahmahamha,spirit bomb,instant transmission,super dragon fist,solar flare and can raise power levels),plus he can read power levels!!!! Superman has pure strenght and can shoot his laser beam eyes only. They both smart fighters, but Goku definitely has an advantage…..Goku has trained martial arts his entire life and earned his skill and strenght… even though they both come from a different planet.If you disagree,your in denial and dont really know both characters!!!!! GOKU’S Character is like JESUS with Martial Arts Abilities. Real Talk!!!!!!
1 goku is fast as the speed of light super man isint that and he is only in super sayin 1 when he learned that 2. goku gets his spirt bomb from the sun so if he (superman) goes to the sun to get more power goku will make one 3. air yes that is the disadvantige for goku he cant breath in space but he could just go get air really fast because he is going at the speed of light so i have seen him (goku) go up therre a a long amont of time 3. if it was sericous goku would beat superman into to nothing really if superman cant die he would probly dolike how he did sorry fogot name of the followingbut he did us the power of a star and he i think could make a portal to a difrent diamention but if picolo can open a portal to hell then he would just thow him in there even if goku was good/evil in this situation he could even if piccolo wont help he could trick gualable denta or force him ik he would do it to get rid of him but like i said hes to gualbe 4.if goku’s tail gets riped off even if it did make him just goto super sayin 3 so what hes faster and stronger at ss1 so he could use kyptinite on superman he would be dissabled permintely goku would probly thow him into the sun with it in side him xd and he would die evechly goku would pwn superman and all his super friend piece by piece besides superman has less freinds if it was all goku’s freinds vs superman’s freind which is really only superwoman and batman,superdog (whitch i think was a stupid idea) and if u count all cartoons with superman in it theres all so batdog and supercat with is even stupider xd batdog will get pwned and supercat i think dosnt have any abiltys so wow thow him in space instint death and wow throw some kyptonite at superdog something random and stupid happends like he could become a idiot , a fish , a cat , a dog thats drunk ,or even simply take his powers with is all stupid right supergirl could be pwned just like superman but she can fight thow o yeah supergirl is freinds with wonderwoman and she can fight but but goku fights better goku does have more freind they only have a few freinds gokus freinds could eat all them alive wow u o have 2 guys who could just open a portal to hell and get them in there then wish that goku was out so goku and his freinds would pwn.
I’ve noticed a lot of comments towards Goku winning on here, are either biased, poorly written, or both. The fewer comments I’ve seen towards Superman winning however, are non-biased, well written, and very detailed/informative. The reason for this being, is because the Superman supporters on here, know about both characters. The reason why a ton of people think that Goku would win, is because they only know about Dragon Ball Z, and not DC comics. While I’m not an expert on either, I love and know about both. Enough to were I can give a valid opinion on who would win in a fight. Goku is awesome, don’t get me wrong people, but I’m going with Superman on this one.
^ THANK YOU for acknowledging that, Marvel Man. I put a lot of thought into my arguments. One thing I think I forgot to post a reference for is the claim that base Goku maxes at 40 tons or below. Here it is:
(Which is more than trillions of tons.) And it’s easy to understand why we’re not exaggerating that Superman would dominate.
Anyway, I’ve made the same observations too. All the pro-Goku arguments clearly have no knowledge of Superman. (Some that do are misinformed, using non-canon material.) It’s hard to take their arguments seriously.
Goku would easily slaughter any version of Superman if you dare to debate with me tee hee ^__^
Oh it’s been a while since the last time I saw someone use Paragon’s intelligent cough* sarcasm cough* logic about cannon and what is to be dismissed as filler or invalid which basically states that “anyone can dictate what Superman is capable of, as long as it’s licensed by DC and hereby empowering a typical Superman fanboy to pull any resource pertaining to their character’s abilities as official cannon… but a DBZtard is not allowed under any circumstance, to call upon movie adaptation and GT as being official.”
Now before I even begin to dish out some serious geek smash… take the time to sit back, relax and let it sink in for a bit as you try to comprehend what I just said in the above pharagraph… I mean come on, seriously?!? like yeah, seriously… it’s amusing how you can go on with your “facts” with such a straight face without even blinking an eye to realize how utterly flawed that kind of logic is and the worst thing about that, is that this is just one example. I honestly don’t wanna get into this debate but it’s New Year’s eve and I’m bored when I typed this so yeah lawl!
^ lol I outright state what version of Superman is canon and how we can’t use non-canon versions (besides which the strongest version of Superman–Superman from DC One Million, who is basically like God–would easily decimate the strongest version of Goku). Way to fail at reading comprehension.
The argument boils down to this: DBZ has too large a gap between the power of ki attacks and physical strength. In early DB, Roshi can destroy the moon with a kamehameha, but after Cell saga, Goku at base caps at only 10-40 tons (see my scans above for proof). Compare that to Superman, whose strength pretty much scales with his durability.
Basically, pick any version of Superman who can live through Goku’s ki attacks and you get a Superman who can kill Goku with a flick of his wrist. Pick a version of Superman who is physically on Goku’s level and you get a Superman who’ll get vaporized by Goku’s ki attacks.
The Superman (again, before the most recent reboot) falls in the latter: can live through Goku’s ki attacks and is physically too powerful for Goku. (See above scans for proof.) Not only that, but he has better survivability with his ability to survive in space and speed enough to outrun a kamehameha (see above scans again).
Superman could survive the basic ki attacks. Fully charged, solar system busting kamehameha? Maybe, maybe not. Again, he’s survived flying through a red sun and punches from Superboy Prime and those might be stronger (I’m no physicist).
Why don’t we just find some middle ground for this debate? Superman stomps Goku physically. Goku destroys Superman through ki attacks. It depends on who lands the fatal blow first.
My friend wind up correcting me. Superman has apparently tanked worse like a sun going supernova (see Action Comics #867), so he can definitely tank any ki attack that isn’t fully charged.
So there goes Goku’s slim chance of beating Superman.
epic!!!!
very cool, but i,m pretty sure goku would win when he gets serious… i mean like… he blows up planets….. n stuff…..
i am sure goku would win
Goku all the way, I mean, don’t get me wrong, Superman would put up quite a fight and certainly do some major damage, but hands down Goku can match all his abilities and then do more.
dats a lie super man would win he is nt a human and goku is
umm first off @super, goku isn’t a human… he’s a SUPER SAIYIAN!!!!!! also I do believe goku would die, but the z-fighters would use the dragonballs to bring him back to life and then he would come back and destroy Superman with a Super Spirit Bomb like the one used against buu
couldn’t the z fighters use the dragonballs to wish superman away or to be killed?
Goku would win cause super man cant max the power that Goku has
Goku would tear superman away. Not just his super strength but his speed, quikness, hes a got damn super saiyan, and cause goku always wins.
wth you saying… Chuck Norris will win
I would kick superman’s Ass
Goku would win because of his ss4 ability, technically he has the two newest forms in the AF series ss5 and ss6, so yeah, GOKU BRINGS DA HURT!
GOKU isnt human your wrong he is saiyan from planet vegeta they are both aliens
Superman isn’t faster than the speed of light; Goku is. Superman can’t control his ki; Goku can. Goku knows martial arts; Superman…well, he just punches for the most part and blows cold air on people. Goku has a damn near ridiculous group of friends that can kick Superman’s ass; Superman is stuck with DC comics…ouch; Superman as a weakness – Kryptonite; Goku…well he has none. Goku has access to Senzu beans, Superman relies on Sun bathing….; Goku has instant transmission – he can take Superman across the galaxy and come back to Earth and poof…no more issues wih Superman. I think Goku clearly wins here..in the end though I can crush them all since their all made of paper…..:D
GOKU IS 10 TIMES BETTER THEN SUPERMAN.GOKU WILL WIN
GOKU MAY BE BETTER THAN SUPERMAN BUT SUPERMAN CAN ALSO INCREASE HIS SUPER POWERS AS FAR AS GOKU HAS. GOKU MAY HAVE THE KAME HAME WAVE BUT SUPERMAN HAVE HIS EYEBLAST. SUPERMAN CAN BE AS FAST AS GOKU IF HE WANTS TO. SUPERMAN MAY HAVE A WEEKNESS BUT GOKU ALSO HAVE WEEKNESS, HIS TAIL, SUPERMAN WILL JUST HOLD ON GOKU’S TAIL AND KILL HIM….
NYAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Goku would definitely win. He is the hardest working character anyone has ever seen. The dude worked out under a 100X earths gravity for gods sake. Also, the kame hame wave can destroy eye blast(comment for Dorobo man), super man can’t teleport, like goku, or transform. Another thing, goku has no weakness. His tail was cut off and Kami made sure it wouldn’t grow back. And as a saiyan gets stronger, their tails aren’t as much of a weak spot anymore. One more thing, super man’s power comes from the sun, if he weren’t anywhere near it, he would lose his power. Goku always has power anywhere he goes, plus he is a fighting genius.
Okay guys lets take this into a serious perspective
superman and goku would have to be the two strongest people in the universe so this battle would be completely epic. but superman would definitely come out on top considering the fact that he actually is just as strong and fast as Goku, they both can move faster than the eye can see and both have the potential to destroy planets. shit when comets come down to earth superman doesn’t use a kamehameha he just goes up there and fucking punches it and it explodes. superman and goku would be fighting forever and goku runs out of ki where superman’s powerlevel always stays the same, goku would end up losing.
Superman, even though his power level can stay the same, if Goku decides to get serious, he would win. Goku’s senzu beans will heal him completely. Superman, he has to wait to be done healing. Heck, when ss4 goku merged with ss4 vegeta, they had the power to create stuff out of nothing (as you may see when gogeta faked a big bang kamehameha and instead made confetti) Not even superman has the power to create. If Goku wasn’t so damn playful he would kill superman in less than 10 seconds flat. If superman was stronger than goku, than goku just has to get hurt, eat a senzu bean, and now he is equally strong. Its in his blood to love fighting.
If superman tries to punch goku nothing will happen because gokus energy is so much it will act like a shield and deflect things.
Goku could punch a hole through superman.
yea goku all the way hes like a machine gets smarter and more serious as he fights superman will have to try to make it quick bet there speed is incredible who faster???
Goku would go through superman like a wet paper bag. Superman is bad ass but Goku is on a level by himslef. Superman would have beat Goku up to the DBZ saga when Goku first fights Vagita and Napa.
its obvious goku will win he is a saiyan superman will be no match for him. he
I’d say goku if he went super sayan, but if Superman somehow got to the sun, Supes would win. He once moved an entire planet when he was supercharged. just think of what his heat vission could do.
saiyans are prolly one the best fictional characters made. (at least for well known cartoons)
so yes goku would whoop ass
CMON..seriously guys..this is a mismatch..goku is like the strongest being on the fantasy world..he can destroy a whole planet with 1 shot..you cant see him when he moves..he can always increase his level..officialy he can transform to ss4 but on AF he has ss5 and ss6 and im sure it could reach ss 1000000000000000..if needed be depending on the opponent..goku never really dies..he is just transported to the 2nd life and can return back to the living..Superman is strong but he has a lot of limitation..hell! even some of gokus buddies would whoop supermans ass..
But as mentioned by Nameless..Chuck Norris would shred goku and superman at the same time..Bow down to Mr. Norris..
its hard to say who would win.. cuz superman isnt completely invincable… if u recall in the comics, cartoons, smallville and movies… anything thats not human, can hurt superman.. think about Doom.. come on now.. Goku woulda mopped the floor with Doom.. but the only difference between the two is that Goku would loose energy during the battle.. superman has an unlimited amount since he gets his power from the sun.. so its hard to say who would really win
unless they fought at night haha. but seriously, from what i’ve seen of both characters in comics, manga and t.v. shows alike, there is no contest. goku would annihilate superman. he wouldn’t kill him because superman is not a bad guy. he would just go easy on him to make things interesting but he’d eventually finish superman off with little effort and then congratulate him on his fighting ability and sportsmanship. hell, goku may even ask him join the z fighters and help defend the earth haha. i don’t have anything against superman, he’s one bad dude. but i gotta tell it like it is.
first of all goku is the most powerful being ever conceived by super heero writers. super has EXTREME vulnerability to kryptonite and lack of sunlight where as goku is vertually invincible. goku, being a sayian has the natural ability to become 5x stronger after every near death experience. which means that after about 20 yrs of dbz goku can excede superman. also goku is a super saiyan he can raise his power lvls beyond measure as the battle would be over before it statred
I reckon Goku could win this in his young dragonball form.
It is the heart in his saiyan blood which keeps him undefeatable
Goku would win superman can die and has in the comics before though they brought him back but Goku would be a match for him in his super saiyan form 1 so with 2 it would increase his speed by 50 and he also has super saiyan mode 3 that would increase by just as much anyways in the DC universe there are just 3 people in his league so he doesn’t get much stronger over time while goku trains all the time and is constantly getting stronger
Goku can teleport, fly, emit pure energy(or ki) to completely annihilate his foes ( look what he did to Cooler), and if he is serious enough he can transfom into multiple forms ten times more powerful than the last. Clearly there is no point in a fight when goku can just summon Shenron to grant Goku the power to just kill superman in 1 punch
here i got the equation
goku vs superman= trash+goku.
Goku has the advantage, first of all neither is human. Goku is a sayin, and superman is kryptonian. So that crushes the human factor out. Superman’s only weakness is kryptonite, other wise he is indestructible. Superman gains his power from planets that have a yellow sun. His home world had a red sun, every kryptonian takes the likeness of a human while exposed to a red sun. No special powers. Goku however is not hindered by this weakness, no specific planet or sun gives him an advantage or disadvantage. He is the same on every planet. It would be easy for goku to win. Instant transmission himself and superman to a galaxy with a red sun, then it would be like a human fighting a sayian. Plus goku has more abilities than superman such as, being a supreme master at martial arts, ki control, signature attacks, transformations, finnishing attacks, the ability to sense any persons energy which makes it impossible to hide, and the fact that he can move at the speed of light. Superman is greatly out classed.
Super man CANNOT BEAT GOKU.Right when Goku changes into supersayen,superman will have a hard time trying to lay a finger on him.And if he transforms into a supersayen 3,
Don’t blink or you will miss superman’s death.
I think superman would not be able to beat Goku,And everyone knows that.
Only why peolpe say superman can beat Goku,is because they like superman better.
In cartoons they always exaggerate,So who will when in real life.Will look at the qualities
of each character,Superman has all his powers he uses on the average,and Goku has
all his powers he uses on the average.(No exaggerating)
Think about this, Goku can get stronger by transforming and superman cannot.Goku beated many villains
which are more powerful than superman:Buu,Cell,Broly.And Superman has a deadly weakness,kryptonite.Only thing superman has on Goku is he can breathe in space.
goku wins period
Even in the cartoons he were won.But these superman fans don’t have to deny it.
one punch from goku on superman will turn superman into batman.
goku is daaaaaaaaaaa best i love him….
i am sure that goku wins
Goku is like 10000000000x better than superman, guys he could kill super man by one hit!!!!
first of all i am the #1 DBZ FAN EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! second superman has no chance even if none of them would even use power ups goku would win. goku has battled many enemys even stronger than his self and he came out on top gokus so strong now that he could use the kaioken and still win and even if superman wants to get his DC people goku vegeta and gohan could defeat them by thereselves and after every battle every saiyan gets even stronger so they could keep going and going up to super saiyan 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or even farther superman automatically has NO CHANCE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
of couse goku he can even kill superman with a blink
I think we get the point.
the fact is that goku by merely powering can destroy planets, if he wants he could only have to look at supermans source of energy, the sun, and boom there goes supermans power….. in the end, its no contest
If you ever watched a Superman cartoon you will see he has trouble fighting robots, , aliens, and weak human “super villains”.
If you ever watch DBZ, you will see Goku and even his weaker friends disintegrating people, cities, moons, planets, stars etc. Of course Goku would win.
DUH!!!!!
no doubt this will be an epic battl the earth would not be able to contian it. superman is
the second fastset person in every universe flash is first.goku will get tired and he cant go to space without a ship.also superman is the man of steel.when it comes to the last hit superman will win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
goku already won this fight it was in a mag wizard #133 look it up http://lounge.moviecodec.com/on-topic/were-can-i-read-the-wizard-magazine-goku-vs-superman-strip-68363/
lol some dude wrote that goku has a weakness ” his tail” umm goku hasnt had a tail since he was like 8 and when he hits ss4 yeah it comes back but then you have to deal with a ss4 lol super man may be made of steel but goke can punch through steel lol heres how i see the fight going : goku instant translocation to whats left of planet kripton grab a rock instan translocation back to earth give chichi said rock and watch his wife beat up a so called super hero : end lol
even if superman would win and im definatly not saying that, right before superman lands a finishing blow (even though that blow will never come) vegeta will just turn up, and treat superman like that punch tester from the martial arts tournament.
either that or goku and vegeta will just laugh at superman and get truks and goten to beat him up, like they did in the OVA episode.
goku destroys superman with easss and heres a nother he beats him with easss superbuuhan well simply because his magic himself hahahahahaha superman can be killed by anybody with a green rock or while under a red sun and simply sertain types of magic and WTF it don’t matter if he grab his tail cause most like he master it in ssj 4 or it just don’t effect him and why would superman hold his tail cause for one he would not even know about thay so i’m like ?????????????????? cause he would not even know about that so okay goku wins with eass so do any of the buus inculeing majuub
goku no duh he go super saiyan on his ass and whoop him in about i say 6 to 12 seconds
Yeahhhhh. Goku by a freaking mile. One way to win: Instant transmission himself and Superman to a planet that does not share the earth’s sun. Another way? Kaaaaaammmmmeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhaaaaaa…
SUPERMAN WINS
It depends on who is writing the battle. Dragon Ball Z should have ended after the Frieza Saga as it was intended too. I mean all the other story lines were cool after that but it distorted and deviated away from what it was.
It would be an amazing battle though.
You have to think of the fact that goku is faster than superman, because of goku’s instant transmition, so goku could always escape, eat some senzu, then come back and fight with full power. So while superman looses his energy while he keeps fighting goku, goku can keep regaining his strength, and eventually overrun superman.
Goku is the ultimate legend not only superman if the entire justice league comes , they can’t beat goku… goku just rocks…
superman is good but when goku is mad he will tear u up
I don’t think they even WOULD fight. I mean, they have no reason to- and they’d be better off working as a team!
Goku is outrageously untouchable, and his power can exceed human standards tenfold. And to his credit, Goku has no weakness – unless you combine Frieza, Cell, Majin Bu, Brolly and maybe a couple others into one being – although that much power in one being would be unstable…giving Goku the advantage.
Superman however, is not human. The (alien) Man of Steel. Not a single thing you do to him is even going to scratch him – unless you come across some of that beautiful meteor rock affectionately known as Kryptonite.
That being said, in a standard fight between Superman and Goku, the result is eminent:
Even.
They’re both far too strong to be affected by anything, and there’s nothing else to be said about them. Both are the best of the best. So like I said, if it was just a face off to the death, we’d be watching a fight for eternity. In the battle of wits however, Goku would pump some Kryptonite into the Man of Steel and be done with him in 10 seconds.
Goku is waaaay cooler, for the record…you just can’t go wrong with blasting your enemies with concentrated energy. And the hair is sweet, haha…
Who cares about Kakorot? Me personally, I would beat Superman any day!
Goku wid win cuz goku can move faster then the speed of light super man has weaknesses and goku dusnt bt goku wid still beat super man becouse goku is the strongest in the universe superman only has 1 power level while goku can increase rapidly
MAN GOKU WOULD SPANK SUPERMAN AND WISH HIM BACK AND THE THE SAME AGAIN!!! vand if he does lose to superman goku always comes back and way more stronger since his a saiyian!
remember goku and superman are both aliens and im tire of people forgetting that superman when he puts on mother box he is twice stronger then before and dont forget that superman was pure energy at one time so if you put ssj4 goku superman as energy would have the edge google it.
esta chidaa la imageen hehe
goku whould win this battle
i am sure that this battle will won by goku
frekin vegeta when he first appeared destoryed planet with 12,000 power level.
now scouter can’t even detect Goku’s power level. When he went to Namek Goku was at 180,000. and and with Super S-Jin 1,2,3,4 he is at leat million time stronger.
frekin Goku will win at easy against Superman even without Super S-Jin.
sorry Superman fans(well i am his fan too lol) , Superman is like fly to Goku. He can take bath inside Sun but he won’t even be able to hurt Goku in any ways.
Superman wins?? Are you guys serious?? Superman is not as fast as goku I’ve seen him fight when goku fight he temporarily vanishes not Sups! His punches are slow and predictable and as far as strenght wise pppffftttt not even close! I mean superman was killed by doomsday who does nothing special but charge tackles and punches which you see coming! Goku’s arsenal of attacks are unmatched instant transmission/insta-kamehameha, spirit bomb, solar flares ki blast barrage! I think goku would be superman only using kaioken x’s 2 at max!
Goku is the most powerful fictional character in the whole world Goku has to potential to become infinitely strong he has more attacks and if I bet if there would have been a saga after GT(AF does not count fan made AF was made up by shonen jump magazine as an April Fools thats why its called AF)he would have learned loads more and learned more levels superman will never beat goku no chance superman could only wish now don’t get me wrong yes superman is powerful but superman nor the whole justice league and all there side kicks could beat goku there will never be a DC or a Marvel hero that could ever beat goku to many moves, loads of energy, possibly an infinite number of transformation he could learn no chance for superman or any other hero for that matter goku wins hands down thank you Akira Toriyama for the most powerful fictional character in history.
O to add on one more thing give superman this mother box that I have just read up on yea again it does make superman more of a bad ass but still goku would win superman could have all the mother boxes in existence and would still lose and hell just for the fun of it lets put all the yellow suns that exist together and put superman and goku on it again with superman wearing all the mother boxes in existence and guess what goku still win and with out changing he still be in his normal state with his power level as low as he could put it and win I done my research just to be fair on the mother box in other words I read comic books and I used wiki for more info that I may have missed just to fill in blanks again thank you Akira Toriyama for the most powerful fictional character in history.
I’m sure that Goku will win………………. because Superman is nothin in front of Goku…………
SUPER Sayian all the way
goku would win. why? he has no limit to his streangth. superman is only so strong. Even if superman would beat goku, when he healed back up he’d be A LOT more stronger and able to finish off superman like a little bitch
not even a contest. Krillin can probably beat superman. hell Raditz stands a chance. that should be the debate. Goku wouldn’t even have to transform to beat superman.
i know alot about both of these characters, and goku can get energy from the sun and also beings from all over the fucking universe. and plus, bitch ass superman cant move at the speed of light but goku can with his instant transmission. this shouldnt even be a discussion. and plus, broly would fuck both of them up cause his powers unlimited. the discussion should be…Broly vs Hulk. they both have unlimited powers so that’d be a really good fight, and technically goku is kind of a god now because he is immortal now because of the dragonball are inside him. suck on dem dragon balls bitches
Yo Goku would kick the fucking shit out of Superman, no contest. Super Sayain 4? Superman would just be suckin on it.
go here, read. stop ur sissy debating
Goku would win his a beast XD
ok, if superman threatened goku (for whatever reason) goku would feel his power but wouldn’t underestimate him because thats how he is. then when superman threw the first punch goku would put up a finger and stop it no problem. after that superman would go into a punching frenzy while goku used his finger to block them all easily (like he did against trunks’ sword). superman would get pissed and shoot his eye lasers at goku while goku sat there, took it, and emerged from the smoke without so much as a fringed hair. superman would then be in awe as goku instantly and effortlessly slammed supermans face with his fist, put a knee 3 feet into superman’s gut, and elbowed supes’ back sending him spiraling to the ground. while superman was falling, goku would charge up a kamehameha wave and completely disentigrate superman before he hit the ground. game, set, and match. Goku is champ for all eternity.
I love both characters GREATLY, especially Superman. However just because that is the circumstance it would illogical to assume that I am be biased towards Superman. I’ll do my best with the knowledge of the two characters that I have to try to conclude a reasonable decision. Arguably,Goku is the better fighter in terms of his technique and skill. Also similar to the various versions of Goku there are also various versions of Superman, some being much more powerful than the others. From my understanding Goku has been able to accomplish amazing feats especially in his highest, most powerful form. This goes for Superman as well. The most powerful known form of Superman is Superman Prime (Gold Superman) which is the original Superman who ventures off into the sun and traveled to many different places and I quote “fighting battles unimaginable.” (please correct me if I’m wrong). In terms of weakness Im sure we are aware of Superman;s however Goku’s seems to be overlooked and left unstated. Indeed it has been proven the higher stage goes into the powerful he gets, however he can only sustain that power for a limited amount of time, and once it is gone he is weakened.
Now his powers are never mentioned ,but he is the head of the Superman Dynasty. I’m my opinion both characters have a chance of beating one another under various circumstances. The issue I’m finding most common among the comments is that people tend to uses phrases such as “Super-saiyan” and “Super-man” in which they are attempting to prove that a Saiyan is greater than a man, super or not. Even though it is true that a Saiyan is more powerful than a human, the faultiness here is that Superman is not a man but a Krytontian. It is very probable that Kryptonians would give the Saiyans a challenge. Also in term of energy usage the original Superman most commonly uses his heat vision which has been powerful enough to heat the entire planet Earth and Goku’s Kamahamaha to destroy an entire planet. To sum it all up, both characters are extremely powerful, it’s just ,however, people tend to undermine Superman’s abilities. This is only the tip of the iceberg for both characters.
It is quite obvious that many of you are misinformed, especially making claims such as Goku being the most powerful character ever created. Unless you have studied all of Superman’s or any other fictional characters capabilities in the comics or other media (which would be a very difficult task) your argument will always lack plausibility. You have to me self-aware of your own biased which in itself is very challenging to change.
I wish there was a debate here, but simply, there isn’t. If Goku fought superman with the sun bearing down on them Goku would still easily win. Before going super saiyan, there might be a fight, but as soon as he gets to super saiyan 1, superman is immediately and completely outclassed. At least as a super saiyan, and probably without, Goku is faster and stronger. Without any kind of trick exploiting superman’s weaknesses, without sensu beans, without merely exploding the planet and teleporting away, Goku could take out the entire Justice league without them even seeing him, and again likely without having to go super saiyan.
Where is your proof? Im not saying that it isn’t possible for Goku to beat Superman, but what proof do you have. Also, it is clear that you have some knowledge of Goku’s abilities however, informed are you when it comes to Superman? Honestly, I wish people would stop being so biased.
I. SSJ3 vs current Superman
- First, we have to establish that the fight will be between SSJ3 vs Superman as he currently is. Dragonball Online, a new MMORPG has a new storyline that completely disregards the events of DBGT. DBGT’s storyline was done entirely by the studio that animated DBZ whereas creator Akira Toriyama has personally supervised the MMORPG’s storyline. That means that DB Online should be treated as the canonical continuation of DBZ and not DBGT. That means that all events of DBGT should be disregarded, including the existence of an SSJ4 transformation. And just to add, all movie events and filler material that does not show up in the original source material–the manga–are also considered non-canon, because they create many plotholes.
If the pro-Goku side wishes to use a non-canon version of Goku (SSJ4 Goku), then it’s just fair to use Superman One Million, who has gained a whole slew of superpowers, such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, control over reality, time, space, magic, etc., and is also in possession of the universe’s most powerful weapon. To name a few. So believe me when I say that it’s also in your best interest to just stick to SSJ3 Goku, okay?
As for which version of Superman to use, the way I see it, we can either use “pre-Crisis Superman” (that is, take both at their strongest), Superman as he currently is (basically take both at the end of their respective storylines), or Superman Prime (the only logical scenario in which we can have both fight and still take personality into consideration). The best one to use IMO is the current Superman, who is the weakest of the three anyway.
(Note that this was typed up maybe around 2006 or so, and I don’t really read that much of DC to keep up with how Superman is now, so there may be some discrepancies due to changes that has occurred between now and then.)
The thing is though, the current Superman, after sundipping, can become nearly as strong as he was pre-Crisis, so for convenience’s sake, I’ll be posting scans of current Superman, Superboy-Prime, and pre-Crisis to support my argument. Here we go.
II. Physical Strength
- Goku: Vegeta trained at 300x Earth’s gravity during the Androids saga. (IIRC, we don’t have any real basis for their strength after that, but this should suffice.) Assuming that Vegeta weighs 300 pounds, that means he’s able to lift ~90,000 pounds during the Androids saga. Goku is much stronger than Vegeta and gets even stronger in the next sagas (especially after he transforms to SSJ3), so we’ll say that he can lift MUCH more than that by the end of DBZ. Someone has informed me that Goku in his normal state can only lift 40 tons at the end of DBZ and struggles to lift a mountain. (I don’t have a scan to go with this fact, but it doesn’t matter.)
- Superman: Superman can augment his super strength to near infinite levels, at which point, he can literally move planets from one solar system to another barehanded. http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superboytowingplanets1400026uv.jpg
Now using Earth (which he has moved before here: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg with only three quarters of his strength) as our basis, that means he can move an object that weighs 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds across solar systems.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_weight.html (The Earth’s mass is 13,160,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds if you want to calculate things yourself).
It’s a stretch to assume that Goku goes from lifting ~90,000 lbs. to being able to move 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. between the Cell saga to his end-DBZ SSJ3 transformation.
Here’s a good clue why: neither Goku nor his enemies ever show themselves to have the strength to move planets all throughout DBZ through physical means alone. In fact, all efforts to destroy a planet in DBZ were done through a ki attack, not by physical means and in DBZ, ki attacks >>>> physical strength.
III. Speed
- Goku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pY1GLtNUc&feature=related shows that SSJ Gotenks (who is stronger than SSJ Goku) gets clocked to be much slower than light speed. (Ignore the portion that uses the anime as basis and go straight to the manga scan.) That makes Instant Transmission Goku’s fastest way of moving from one place to another and keep in mind that he needs a ki lock to use it, which does take a very tiny amount of time. And when facing someone with Superman’s speed, that tiny amount of time is a very wide window. Aside from that, Goku is, at his base, slower than lightspeed.
- http://i28.tinypic.com/14jxphl.jpg shows Superman flying from Earth to Saturn in 4 minutes. Light takes 17 minutes to reach Saturn, so that alone proves that Superman as he currently is, can fly four times faster than the speed of light. Pre-Crisis Superman would then put Goku to shame as he can move fast enough to break the time barrier (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/stuffoffiction/Comicbooks/Additional/?action=view¤t=SupermansGreatestFeats3.jpg) which means that he can simply fly Goku to the beginning of time (which he’s done to Brainiac, but I have no scan of that), when there are no planets, so Goku cannot survive.
Now, some people claim that Superman does not use his speed when he fights. That’s not true.
http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=708yd.png
http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwvssupesheatvisionta3.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/28bgps0.jpg
Supes blitzes a lot of his opponents, so that argument against him is flawed.
Also, Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, so ki attacks are hypothetically useless.
http://i31.tinypic.com/35n6jab.jpg
IV. Durability
- Goku can’t survive in space.
- Superman can survive in space.
(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THIS ENTIRE POST.) Goku’s inability to survive in outer space is a major disadvantage that will most likely be the deciding factor of this match. Now some people will point out that Freeza had that same advantage, but I want to point out the actual results of the match. Freeza survived the battle and Goku would’ve died were it not for that space pod. The only reason Goku won was because of sheer dumb luck and Freeza’s arrogance. Superman does not have that same failing as Freeza and luck is disregarded in hypothetical matches. That means that since this is a hypothetical battle, this fact alone points towards Superman ultimately winning the fight.
Both are powerful enough to destroy a planet. If the fight gets so destructive that the planet they’re fighting on gets destroyed, Goku will be the one most likely to suffer (unless he uses Instant Transmission and if this is how the scenario plays out, it just proves that the best Goku can pull is a stalemate). Also, (I’m not sure if Superman still has this ability, so someone correct me if I’m wrong,) AFAIK, Superman (like Flash) can vibrate his molecules fast enough to become intangible, which means that Goku can’t even hit him.
Also, Goku’s inability to follow Superman to space is a major drawback. Superman could fly out into space and use his telescopic vision to see where Goku is and use his heat vision, which is strong enough to fix a hole in the cosmos http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2383/supes2po7.jpg to burn a hole on Goku’s head.
And just for laughs, Pre-Crisis Supes could even fly out and simply sneeze http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9543/supersneezeae9og9.jpg and Goku will be gone. Alternatively, he could also throw an object weighing trillions of tons http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg smack into Goku’s face, or push/pull the planet Goku’s on into the sun. (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg)
Now another thing to point out is the question of whether or not Superman can survive Goku’s ki attacks. As I showed earlier, Superman is fast enough to dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams, so he is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, thus making this argument irrelevant. In the event that an attack does connect though, Superman has flown through a field of kryptonite and then through a red sun before (both of which drain his powers) and still survived.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4568/scan00197tnwo9.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1107/scan00228qdaj6.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6425/scan00231lkoc2.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1319/scan00246wmrh2.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3958/scan00253nfnx3.jpg
So it all depends on what is more destructive, a red sun, or Goku’s ki attack. In any case, Superman should be able to dodge the attack, so withstanding it is irrelevant. (And yes, the guy he’s fighting is the same one who towed planets using chains and threw an object that weighs trillions of tons to a distance billions of lightyears away.)
Oh, and FYI, the spirit bomb wouldn’t work on Superman because he’s not evil.
V. Personality
- There’s been arguments that Superman wouldn’t use his speed in a fight or that he would hold back because he’s a “boy scout.” Here’s proof that that is not true as well.
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce54gr.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce61ab.jpg
http://returntocomics.typepad.com/photos/misc/superman_kills_hbomb.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/heat_vision1.jpg
Again, Superman has blitzed (at lightspeed) many of his opponents before.
Besides, if we take personality into account, Goku isn’t likely to use kryptonite against Superman. (He gave Cell a senzu bean for crying out loud.)
Ultimately, if you take personality into account, Superman and Goku wouldn’t kill each other, so there’s no real way this match can be carried out since neither one will go all out. That is why personality should be ignored in hypothetical battles and assume that they are “bloodlusted.” (The only fair plausible scenario in which personality can be taken into account is Superman-Prime vs Goku.)
But if we assume that they‘re bloodlusted, then what’s to stop Superman from simply flying Goku straight into the sun or out into the universe? (Which he’s done repeatedly to opponents.)
VI. Weaknesses
- Goku: Goku cannot sustain his SSJ3 transformation for very long, meaning that he can only fight at his peak in a very short amount of time. Aside from that, his only weaknesses are the limits to his strength, speed, and durability, and the aforementioned inability to survive in outer space. (http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4240/4211014db.gif)
- Superman: Superman has a very well-known weakness to kryptonite. But in his storyline, Superman has gathered almost all of them and threw them into the sun, and gave the remaining pieces to Batman. That means that for the sake of this argument, there is no kryptonite that can be used against Superman.
Besides, Superman can still hold his own even after being weakened. (See my earlier scan of Superman flying through a field of kryptonite, then through a red sun, all the while carrying Superboy-Prime, who is much stronger than he is.)
Of course, Superman is also susceptible to magic and mind control, but Goku isn’t magic and he can’t control minds either.
VII. Dragonballs
- Another argument that someone else might present is that Goku can use the dragonballs against Superman. Now Goku has a dragon radar and Superman has his super hearing, X-ray vision, and superior speed. Both have a really good chance of finding the dragonballs, but then this becomes more of a race, and once they get to the location, they’ll probably just wind up duking it out then, so it’s just best to avoid this argument altogether. And let’s not forget, Goku prefers to fight an enemy directly rather than use the dragonballs on them.
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=157
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=158
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=159
So the dragonballs are a moot point in this argument.
VIII. Martial Arts Skills
- Superman has had some training, but Goku is definitely the superior martial artist of the two. This advantage, however, will not help him overcome his other shortcomings.
IX. Wizard’s Versus Battle
- Now, some will point out that Wizard did a take on this match and published that Goku would be the winner. First of all, it should be noted that that match was not canon. Wizard does those hypothetical matches a lot and if they were canon, then that would mean that a lot of fictional characters would be dead in their respective universes. It’s just a take by other writers, so it’s not canon, and sometimes it can be completely incorrect.
If you read that particular versus battle, you’ll see that they use a LOT of completely wrong information.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg
The most obvious inconsistensies are:
1. Goku being able to fight in space.
2. Superman not surviving a punch that would put him in collision with Earth’s surface. (He’s been punched though the Earth and shrugged it off.)
3. Some unheard of “particle flux” that results from Goku’s IT.
4. Goku at his base form being strong enough to land a heavy blow on Supes.
So not only was that versus match not canon, it was completely filled with false information. I mean, even the premise is ridiculous. Eighth dragonball? Not only is Goku familiar enough with the dragonballs to know that that information is false, he also knows Kami/Piccolo/Dende and would’ve simply gone to them and asked them to confirm it before trusting someone who he most likely sensed to have an evil intention.
X. Faster than a speeding bullet…
- Most people seem to forget that there are various incarnations of Superman and are completely biased in choosing which one to pit against Goku in this argument. There’s absolutely no reason to go with Superman from the movies or a past, weaker version of him other than to sway the argument to Goku’s favor. To use a non-canon or an outdated incarnation of Superman would be as unfairly biased as say, pitting DB Goku against pre-Crisis Superman.
That said, a lot of people seem to have very little knowledge of Superman. “Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” has not been true for over half a century now. I mean, the guy can fly out to space. That just goes to show that “able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” is definitely an outdated understatement. So, if you’re going to use arguments against Superman, please make sure that it is up to date and accurate. (I’m being a bit of hypocrite here since I have admitted that this argument is a couple of years old, but AFAIK, there hasn‘t been that much changes between then and now anyway.)
The same goes for Goku. Know the difference between filler and canon material and stick to using what is canon.
XI. You’re a Superman fanboy.
- I’m adding this here because this is the most common illogical argument used against me.
I am, with all honesty, not a fan of DC. And I don’t even like Superman all that much. The reasons why I’ve grown to dislike Superman though (being way too overpowered) are the very reasons why I believe he would win against Goku. That said, I like Goku better as a character overall.
Anyway, please refrain from using this logic against me and focus on the points laid out above.
To further add to my proof that I am not supporting Superman out of fanboyism, I should point out that I don’t believe that Superman is unbeatable. In fact, I think there is another DBZ character capable of defeating Superman. I believe that any incarnation of Buu should be able to accomplish that feat, but it would depend on the scenario.
So you might ask, why then, do I believe that Buu can defeat Superman but Goku, who defeated Buu, can’t? Simple. Buu won’t win by overpowering Superman, but by absorbing him, which Goku obviously can’t do. This is where the “scenario” part plays in. If Superman is aware of Buu’s absorption technique, then his super speed, long range heat beams, and heightened senses should be enough to play a good keep-away game and ultimately destroy Buu. However, if Superman is unaware of this ability, Buu can easily take him by surprise and absorb him. And since Superman is susceptible to magic and Buu was created by magic, it’s logical to assume that Superman would get absorbed easily.
So there you have it. Superman wins this one easily due to numerous advantages.
Goku isnt a human to whoever just said that
AIGHT, LET ME SAY I KNOW BOTH, AND THERE AINT NO CHANCE IN HELL SUPERMAN COULD WIN THAT FIGHT. THERE BOTH ALIENS. SUPERMAN HAS TO MANY WEAKNESSES. GOKU HAD 1 BUT THATS GONE AND THATS HIS TAIL. GOKU IS LIKE A SUPERMAN FOR KRYPTONIANS. THE DUDE GETS STRONGER AFTER A FIGHT OR NEAR DEATH EXPERIANCE. SUPERMAN COULDNT EVEN BEAT TIEN NOR PICCOLLO. SUPERMAN HAS ALL KINDS OF COLORED KRYPONITE AS HIS WEAKNESS EVEN THOUGH GOKU WOULDNT NEED IT. THE YELLOW SUN COULD B BLOCKED EVEN THOUGH GOKU DOESNT NEED THAT EITHER TO DEFEAT HIM. SUPERMAN HAS NO MARTIAL ARTS. NOR THE SPEED THAT MOST OF THESE DBZ CHARACTERS GOT. NOT EVEN THE TYPE OF POWER. SUPERMAN IS B4 TIME OF DBZ. HE’S LIMITED. HE HAS AMAZIN ABILITIES BUT NOT AS AMAZING AS ANY DBZ CHARACTERS HAVE. GOKU DOESNT EVEN NEED A SENZU BEEN OR NOTHIN 4 THIS FIGHT AND ALL U NEED IS A FEW OF THE DBZ CHARACTERS TO TAKE OUT EVERY SINGLE DC CHARACTER OUT. EVEN MARVEL WOOPED DCS ASS. AND DBZ CAN TAKE CARE OF BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME. DBZ IS ON SOME OTHER SHIT THAT NONE OF THEM CAN COMPARE. THEY MADE THEM PRACTICALLY INVINSIBLE U WOULD NEED ANOTHER DBZ CHARACTER TO FINISH THEM OFF
@A Logical Answer: I FEEL U ON THAT. BUT GOLD SUPERMAN OR WUTEVER THERES JUS NO WAY SUPERMAN HAS A CHANCE TO BEAT GOKU. AND WUTS FUNNY IS BOUT THEM FIGHTIN EACH OTHER. IT JUS DONT SEEM RIGHT THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD REASON. AND YEA FOR THE FACT OF COMPARIN THEM WITH POWER OF DISTRUCTION. THEY DO HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT BACK ROUNDS BOUT SUPERMAN BUT WHICH 1 R THEY TRYNA PUT OUT AGAINST GOKU. AND I WOULD LIKE TO C A TV SHOW OF THE MOST POWERFULL SUPERMAN. CAUSE THE THINGS U SEE IN COMICS AND IF THEY WERE TO PUT IT ON TV. I DONT C SUPERMAN EVEN STILL NOT COMPARIN TO GOKU. ESPECIALY SINCE GOKU HAS NO WEAKNESS. AND IF HIS POWER WAS TO “SOME HOW FADE” WHEN FIGHTIN SUPERMAN. THEN THAT B ON GOKU. BUT THATS IS CRAZY I DONT C IT HAPPININ RIGHT AWAY AND EVEN BY THE TIME HE FEELS LIKE HES GETTIN WEAK GOKU WOULD CANCEL HIM OUT. THERES SO MANY STAGES THAT GOKU GOES UP IN. AND HONESTLY I DONT EVEN SEE HIM EVEN USIN ANY SUPER SAIYEN STAGES. I’LL B SUPRISE IF HE USES 1. AND IT BE A BORIN FIGHT. GOKU PROLLY WONT EVEN USE KAIOKEN 1. IM SURE HE MIGHT JUS POWER UP REGURELY. BUT U GOT TO REALIZE HE HAS THE KAIOKEN STAGES TOO. GOKU HAS CRAZY ABILITIES THEY MADE HIM IN-HUMANLY INSANE…. NAW MATTER OF FACT IN-ALIEN INSANE. THEYED WORSHIP HIM ON KRYPTON
AND GOKU IS FASTER THAN SUPERMAN EVEN WITHOUT THE INSTANT TRANSMISSION. PICCOLO JR. HAD THE SPEED OF LIGHT WHEN HE 1ST POPPED ON
TWICE THE ENERGY, NOTHIN BUT ENERGY. ALL THESE THINGS WONT MATTER IN THE FIGHT WITH GOKU HE CAN END IT IN A QUICK SECOND IF HE WANTED TO. I HAVENT SEEN NOT 1 CHARACTER THAT COULD B POWERFUL THEN GOKU. AND EVEN THOUGH HE WAS INVICIBLE TO BEGIN WITH. THE LAST SHOW HE FUSED WITH THE DRAGON BALLS AND THATS LIKE TO SCARY TO EVEN AMAGIN THE POWER HE HAS NOW. LIKE I SAID KRYPTON WOULD B WORSHIPPIN HIM LIKE EARTH WOULD WORSHIP…. AIT EARTH WOULD WORSHIP GOKU TO. SUPERMAN PROLLY RETIRE FROM SAVIN THE WORLD IF HE KNEW OR IF THERE WAS ANY TYPE OF HERO LIKE THAT OUT THERE OR MAYBE HE’D B ANOTHER BATMAN COMPARED TO HIM. SUPERMAN WOULD B PUT IN HIS PLACE TO POINT WHERE HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE IN GOKU TO SAVE WORLDS
BUT IF ANYTHING ALL THEY R GONNA DO IS LIMIT GOKU KNOWIN DAMN WELL THERE AINT NO CHANCE IN HELL SUPERMAN COULD BEAT HIM BLUE OR RED AINT FUCKIN WITH GOLD
Hi Matchstckgmr again now I had to do more research after hearing there are many kinds of superman or men which ever I still must say that goku would win I do have info on both Goku and Superman there powers are great they have many forms styles and attacks but till this day I belive goku can would and will beat superman he is not strong enough to put up a good fight I done enough reading and research to back up my info if you wish ask and I will give you good reasons why some will be simple minded others will be hard facts superman is just all about blunt force no real fighting style ether I mean batman atleast knows martal arts true batman is human but he has real fighting skill unlike superman yes due to the fact that superman is super strong and has all his other powers he only uses blunt force no real plan if you ask me just hit as hard as I can and try harder than that if it does not work goku has way more attacks he has like 5 different martal arts masters that he has learned under so he knows 5 different ways of fighting then if thats the case superman has many weaknesses clearly pointed out goku only had one and it does not bother him anymore its his tail he got it chopped off when he was young but got it back in gt to go to super sayian 4 but as a sayian grows stronger they lose that weakness even if they have a tail vageta pointed this out and goku can stay in his forms for as long as he wants he only gets on a time limit when he is beaten to near death or just uses alot of energy I have seen this many times the only form he had a time limit in was super sayian 3 and the only reason he had that was cause of 2 to 3 reasons maybe more if I remember right he said he has not had much time to practice that form for one so he had to use loads of energy to change into it next he needed a tail to handle all the energy that came with the form I belive that the tail on a sayian has one more Purpose for being there and thats to hava a place to put all there extra energy that can’t be put into there body, hair, and aura plus the first time he used super sayian 3 that we seen was on earth fighting fat buu while he was dead he had a time limit to be on earth 24 hours and going super sayian 3 made him have less time to stay from what I have seen sayian grow stronger from near death and being healed to full again and seeing all the transformations that they have gained I belive that there may be no limit to how many super sayian levels there are for all we know there could be a super sayian 50,000 or more and they learn new powers all the time and learn how to use 2 of there powers together and some can fuse together there are 2 different ways to fuse in dbz if you count how nameks do it then 3 anyways enough about dbz now for superman he has changed alot over the years but yes as somebody pointed out his most powerful form is the gold superman form I am not sure if that is the right name form for it but goku can beat it superman has a hard time beating aliens and some super bad guys too and goku is a alien not human yes he was raised on earth and and his first 2 fighting teachers were human but he is still and alien and a strong one at that and Kryptony people are like humans when on there home planet from my understanding sayians always have been strong from day one no need for any sun or anything to make them strong unless you count there ape form then yes they need the moon unless you think about the move the goku’s father made that puts out the same energy as the moon vagita was the first person we seen use it but goku’s father made it anyways here is a list of supermans powers known powers that is Superhuman strength, speed, stamina, invulnerability, senses, intelligence, regeneration, longevity, super breath, heat vision, x-ray vision, microscopic vision, telescopic vision, and flight that is all of supermans powers listed that are known most of them are not attacks ether I might add now here are goku’s powers Kamehameha, warp or instantramission kamehameha, sprit bomb and he has 3 or 4 different versions of that, solar flare, instantranmission, 10x kamehameha, Super Kamehameha, energy blast, kai o ken, super sayian 1 to 4, distructo disk, 4 or 5 different styles of martal arts, able to grow stronger from near death moments, fusion, explosive wave, blow back people with a small blast of energy from his hands, super strength, can go to speed of light, longevity, stamina, and invulnerablity goku can travel between life and death and to other planets in seconds superman only has 3 of the things that I listed for goku all in all goku will always win is goku the most powerful fictional character I think so but like anybody else I could be wrong but goku will win against superman no if and or but about it I backed my facts up if you can prove me wrong bring you own facts to the table and we will stack them up to see who would win and if you prove me wrong I will admit to it but only if you do.
I. SSJ3 vs current Superman
- First, we have to establish that the fight will be between SSJ3 vs Superman as he currently is. Dragonball Online, a new MMORPG has a new storyline that completely disregards the events of DBGT. DBGT’s storyline was done entirely by the studio that animated DBZ whereas creator Akira Toriyama has personally supervised the MMORPG’s storyline. That means that DB Online should be treated as the canonical continuation of DBZ and not DBGT. That means that all events of DBGT should be disregarded, including the existence of an SSJ4 transformation. And just to add, all movie events and filler material that does not show up in the original source material–the manga–are also considered non-canon, because they create many plotholes.
If the pro-Goku side wishes to use a non-canon version of Goku (SSJ4 Goku), then it’s just fair to use Superman One Million, who has gained a whole slew of superpowers, such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, control over reality, time, space, magic, etc., and is also in possession of the universe’s most powerful weapon. To name a few. So believe me when I say that it’s also in your best interest to just stick to SSJ3 Goku, okay?
As for which version of Superman to use, the way I see it, we can either use “pre-Crisis Superman” (that is, take both at their strongest), Superman as he currently is (basically take both at the end of their respective storylines), or Superman Prime (the only logical scenario in which we can have both fight and still take personality into consideration). The best one to use IMO is the current Superman, who is the weakest of the three anyway.
(Note that this was typed up maybe around 2006 or so, and I don’t really read that much of DC to keep up with how Superman is now, so there may be some discrepancies due to changes that has occurred between now and then.)
The thing is though, the current Superman, after sundipping, can become nearly as strong as he was pre-Crisis, so for convenience’s sake, I’ll be posting scans of current Superman, Superboy-Prime, and pre-Crisis to support my argument. Here we go.
II. Physical Strength
- Goku: Vegeta trained at 300x Earth’s gravity during the Androids saga. (IIRC, we don’t have any real basis for their strength after that, but this should suffice.) Assuming that Vegeta weighs 300 pounds, that means he’s able to lift ~90,000 pounds during the Androids saga. Goku is much stronger than Vegeta and gets even stronger in the next sagas (especially after he transforms to SSJ3), so we’ll say that he can lift MUCH more than that by the end of DBZ. Someone has informed me that Goku in his normal state can only lift 40 tons at the end of DBZ and struggles to lift a mountain. (I don’t have a scan to go with this fact, but it doesn’t matter.)
- Superman: Superman can augment his super strength to near infinite levels, at which point, he can literally move planets from one solar system to another barehanded. http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superboytowingplanets1400026uv.jpg
Now using Earth (which he has moved before here: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg with only three quarters of his strength) as our basis, that means he can move an object that weighs 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds across solar systems.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_weight.html (The Earth’s mass is 13,160,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds if you want to calculate things yourself).
It’s a stretch to assume that Goku goes from lifting ~90,000 lbs. to being able to move 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. between the Cell saga to his end-DBZ SSJ3 transformation.
Here’s a good clue why: neither Goku nor his enemies ever show themselves to have the strength to move planets all throughout DBZ through physical means alone. In fact, all efforts to destroy a planet in DBZ were done through a ki attack, not by physical means and in DBZ, ki attacks >>>> physical strength.
III. Speed
- Goku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pY1GLtNUc&feature=related shows that SSJ Gotenks (who is stronger than SSJ Goku) gets clocked to be much slower than light speed. (Ignore the portion that uses the anime as basis and go straight to the manga scan.) That makes Instant Transmission Goku’s fastest way of moving from one place to another and keep in mind that he needs a ki lock to use it, which does take a very tiny amount of time. And when facing someone with Superman’s speed, that tiny amount of time is a very wide window. Aside from that, Goku is, at his base, slower than lightspeed.
- http://i28.tinypic.com/14jxphl.jpg shows Superman flying from Earth to Saturn in 4 minutes. Light takes 17 minutes to reach Saturn, so that alone proves that Superman as he currently is, can fly four times faster than the speed of light. Pre-Crisis Superman would then put Goku to shame as he can move fast enough to break the time barrier (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/stuffoffiction/Comicbooks/Additional/?action=view¤t=SupermansGreatestFeats3.jpg) which means that he can simply fly Goku to the beginning of time (which he’s done to Brainiac, but I have no scan of that), when there are no planets, so Goku cannot survive.
Now, some people claim that Superman does not use his speed when he fights. That’s not true.
http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=708yd.png
http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwvssupesheatvisionta3.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/28bgps0.jpg
Supes blitzes a lot of his opponents, so that argument against him is flawed.
Also, Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, so ki attacks are hypothetically useless.
http://i31.tinypic.com/35n6jab.jpg
IV. Durability
- Goku can’t survive in space.
- Superman can survive in space.
(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THIS ENTIRE POST.) Goku’s inability to survive in outer space is a major disadvantage that will most likely be the deciding factor of this match. Now some people will point out that Freeza had that same advantage, but I want to point out the actual results of the match. Freeza survived the battle and Goku would’ve died were it not for that space pod. The only reason Goku won was because of sheer dumb luck and Freeza’s arrogance. Superman does not have that same failing as Freeza and luck is disregarded in hypothetical matches. That means that since this is a hypothetical battle, this fact alone points towards Superman ultimately winning the fight.
Both are powerful enough to destroy a planet. If the fight gets so destructive that the planet they’re fighting on gets destroyed, Goku will be the one most likely to suffer (unless he uses Instant Transmission and if this is how the scenario plays out, it just proves that the best Goku can pull is a stalemate). Also, (I’m not sure if Superman still has this ability, so someone correct me if I’m wrong,) AFAIK, Superman (like Flash) can vibrate his molecules fast enough to become intangible, which means that Goku can’t even hit him.
Also, Goku’s inability to follow Superman to space is a major drawback. Superman could fly out into space and use his telescopic vision to see where Goku is and use his heat vision, which is strong enough to fix a hole in the cosmos http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2383/supes2po7.jpg to burn a hole on Goku’s head.
And just for laughs, Pre-Crisis Supes could even fly out and simply sneeze http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9543/supersneezeae9og9.jpg and Goku will be gone. Alternatively, he could also throw an object weighing trillions of tons http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg smack into Goku’s face, or push/pull the planet Goku’s on into the sun. (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg)
Now another thing to point out is the question of whether or not Superman can survive Goku’s ki attacks. As I showed earlier, Superman is fast enough to dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams, so he is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, thus making this argument irrelevant. In the event that an attack does connect though, Superman has flown through a field of kryptonite and then through a red sun before (both of which drain his powers) and still survived.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4568/scan00197tnwo9.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1107/scan00228qdaj6.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6425/scan00231lkoc2.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1319/scan00246wmrh2.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3958/scan00253nfnx3.jpg
So it all depends on what is more destructive, a red sun, or Goku’s ki attack. In any case, Superman should be able to dodge the attack, so withstanding it is irrelevant. (And yes, the guy he’s fighting is the same one who towed planets using chains and threw an object that weighs trillions of tons to a distance billions of lightyears away.)
Oh, and FYI, the spirit bomb wouldn’t work on Superman because he’s not evil.
V. Personality
- There’s been arguments that Superman wouldn’t use his speed in a fight or that he would hold back because he’s a “boy scout.” Here’s proof that that is not true as well.
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce54gr.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce61ab.jpg
http://returntocomics.typepad.com/photos/misc/superman_kills_hbomb.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/heat_vision1.jpg
Again, Superman has blitzed (at lightspeed) many of his opponents before.
Besides, if we take personality into account, Goku isn’t likely to use kryptonite against Superman. (He gave Cell a senzu bean for crying out loud.)
Ultimately, if you take personality into account, Superman and Goku wouldn’t kill each other, so there’s no real way this match can be carried out since neither one will go all out. That is why personality should be ignored in hypothetical battles and assume that they are “bloodlusted.” (The only fair plausible scenario in which personality can be taken into account is Superman-Prime vs Goku.)
But if we assume that they‘re bloodlusted, then what’s to stop Superman from simply flying Goku straight into the sun or out into the universe? (Which he’s done repeatedly to opponents.)
VI. Weaknesses
- Goku: Goku cannot sustain his SSJ3 transformation for very long, meaning that he can only fight at his peak in a very short amount of time. Aside from that, his only weaknesses are the limits to his strength, speed, and durability, and the aforementioned inability to survive in outer space. (http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4240/4211014db.gif)
- Superman: Superman has a very well-known weakness to kryptonite. But in his storyline, Superman has gathered almost all of them and threw them into the sun, and gave the remaining pieces to Batman. That means that for the sake of this argument, there is no kryptonite that can be used against Superman.
Besides, Superman can still hold his own even after being weakened. (See my earlier scan of Superman flying through a field of kryptonite, then through a red sun, all the while carrying Superboy-Prime, who is much stronger than he is.)
Of course, Superman is also susceptible to magic and mind control, but Goku isn’t magic and he can’t control minds either.
VII. Dragonballs
- Another argument that someone else might present is that Goku can use the dragonballs against Superman. Now Goku has a dragon radar and Superman has his super hearing, X-ray vision, and superior speed. Both have a really good chance of finding the dragonballs, but then this becomes more of a race, and once they get to the location, they’ll probably just wind up duking it out then, so it’s just best to avoid this argument altogether. And let’s not forget, Goku prefers to fight an enemy directly rather than use the dragonballs on them.
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=157
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=158
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=159
So the dragonballs are a moot point in this argument.
VIII. Martial Arts Skills
- Superman has had some training, but Goku is definitely the superior martial artist of the two. This advantage, however, will not help him overcome his other shortcomings.
IX. Wizard’s Versus Battle
- Now, some will point out that Wizard did a take on this match and published that Goku would be the winner. First of all, it should be noted that that match was not canon. Wizard does those hypothetical matches a lot and if they were canon, then that would mean that a lot of fictional characters would be dead in their respective universes. It’s just a take by other writers, so it’s not canon, and sometimes it can be completely incorrect.
If you read that particular versus battle, you’ll see that they use a LOT of completely wrong information.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg
The most obvious inconsistensies are:
1. Goku being able to fight in space.
2. Superman not surviving a punch that would put him in collision with Earth’s surface. (He’s been punched though the Earth and shrugged it off.)
3. Some unheard of “particle flux” that results from Goku’s IT.
4. Goku at his base form being strong enough to land a heavy blow on Supes.
So not only was that versus match not canon, it was completely filled with false information. I mean, even the premise is ridiculous. Eighth dragonball? Not only is Goku familiar enough with the dragonballs to know that that information is false, he also knows Kami/Piccolo/Dende and would’ve simply gone to them and asked them to confirm it before trusting someone who he most likely sensed to have an evil intention.
X. Faster than a speeding bullet…
- Most people seem to forget that there are various incarnations of Superman and are completely biased in choosing which one to pit against Goku in this argument. There’s absolutely no reason to go with Superman from the movies or a past, weaker version of him other than to sway the argument to Goku’s favor. To use a non-canon or an outdated incarnation of Superman would be as unfairly biased as say, pitting DB Goku against pre-Crisis Superman.
That said, a lot of people seem to have very little knowledge of Superman. “Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” has not been true for over half a century now. I mean, the guy can fly out to space. That just goes to show that “able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” is definitely an outdated understatement. So, if you’re going to use arguments against Superman, please make sure that it is up to date and accurate. (I’m being a bit of hypocrite here since I have admitted that this argument is a couple of years old, but AFAIK, there hasn‘t been that much changes between then and now anyway.)
The same goes for Goku. Know the difference between filler and canon material and stick to using what is canon.
XI. You’re a Superman fanboy.
- I’m adding this here because this is the most common illogical argument used against me.
I am, with all honesty, not a fan of DC. And I don’t even like Superman all that much. The reasons why I’ve grown to dislike Superman though (being way too overpowered) are the very reasons why I believe he would win against Goku. That said, I like Goku better as a character overall.
Anyway, please refrain from using this logic against me and focus on the points laid out above.
To further add to my proof that I am not supporting Superman out of fanboyism, I should point out that I don’t believe that Superman is unbeatable. In fact, I think there is another DBZ character capable of defeating Superman. I believe that any incarnation of Buu should be able to accomplish that feat, but it would depend on the scenario.
So you might ask, why then, do I believe that Buu can defeat Superman but Goku, who defeated Buu, can’t? Simple. Buu won’t win by overpowering Superman, but by absorbing him, which Goku obviously can’t do. This is where the “scenario” part plays in. If Superman is aware of Buu’s absorption technique, then his super speed, long range heat beams, and heightened senses should be enough to play a good keep-away game and ultimately destroy Buu. However, if Superman is unaware of this ability, Buu can easily take him by surprise and absorb him. And since Superman is susceptible to magic and Buu was created by magic, it’s logical to assume that Superman would get absorbed easily.
So there you have it. Superman wins this one easily due to numerous advantages.
(To whoever moderates the post: If you must delete one of my posts, I’d rather you keep this one and delete my post in the other discussion. Thanks.)
Well I hate to say it belive me I do and I did say I admit it if somebody proved me wrong but this guy saying superman could beat goku basied on his info I have to say proved me wrong but I like to add one more thing before shuting my mouth yes the man said that instantransmission does take time to use which is true and superman can go faster than light bassed on that info but who is to say that planet namkie which is not a real planet as far as we know lol is not as close as saturn who is to say it maybe as far out as pluto or past it for all we know it may be in another galixy how ever they did say its in the system but who know it did take 4 months for goku to get there on his space ship but it had taken him seconds to get to the new one with instantransmission which again maybe in another system I will stick by this I think goku is still faster and has way more skill in fighting I said it once and I will say it again superman has no fighting style just blunt force goku has martal arts thats all there is to if you can show me a real seen ether from a cartoon(a real one not fan made) or a comic(again real not fan made) of superman learning martal arts then ok he has goku beat on that but only if you can.
goku can died hes basically a human and superman can only died by cryptonite so as much as i like goku superman wins
I belive superman can die just as easy as anybody else but only if you go to take what is needed to do it for a human like you and me it be as simple as hitting me with enough force to taking a weapon like a sword or a gun and finshing me off but for goku its basicly alot of power behind a blast of energy with superman I am not sure but I am sure that there is something besides cryptonite that can kill him I don’t know what it is but I am sure something can a weapon maybe a person of some sort I don’t know but if I find out I am posting it here first.
Goku using IT to go to a location three feet away would take the same amount of time as using IT to go to a location three million miles away. So it’s only really advantageous for covering VERY huge distances. It really doesn’t matter much in this fight because of the two, Superman is much better at fighting from a distance since he can go out into space and he has telescopic vision and super hearing. Goku would need to fight in the same distance he does in DBZ, in which case the distance is close enough that IT isn’t really much of a factor when fighting up close.
As for using IT for a hit-and-run tactic, remember that he needs a ki lock. Without that, he doesn’t even know which direction to go. (Remember, he had to pointed towards the direction of Namek and even then, it took him a while to sense their ki.) IT is only instant as it’s being used. To be able to use it for very long distances though, it would take a while. Also, he can’t really use it to follow Superman wherever he goes. If Superman flies out to space, Goku can’t IT to follow him there because Goku can’t survive in space.
On a side note, please use punctuations when you post. It’s much easier on the eyes if you do.
Oh, and I forgot to post this one:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1550/durability01.jpg
That’s Goku shrugging off a planet exploding in his face. Goku’s durability doesn’t even come close to that.
thanks to this I no longer watch cartoons or anime I don’t read comic books or read manga anime should have won this japanese cartoons have always been better and so have the people in them they have always been stronger but this just made me hate them anime should have won this fight not some crappy american cartoon there is a load of more art work taken into making anime than any american cartoon I have spend alot of time around art so I know what I am talking about and the storys in anime are alot better but now I hate both this sucks I pray that an anime cartoon will have a person in it that can beat any and all american comic book hero’s but untill then I will hate both sides but I will be watching for an anime with that person in it.
I would say its to close to Call because u all forget Superman’s body is virtually impenetrable other than Kryptonite but not evening Lightening can penetrate his skin and Goku’s Power is pure electrical energy and would really knock Superman around and it would real painful for him but it wont kill and also Superman has a advantage over Goku regarding his strength Superman can lift Mountains over his head without breaking a sweat he could crush Goku to death and not to mention if superman got a hold of Goku he can snap his neck with his fingers also Superman’s heat vision heat its as hot as the temperature of the sun and could easily fry Goku and one other thing no one really knows has fast Superman is it just says hes faster than bullets and if he can move so fast that he can move the earth backwards on its access reversing time then I believe hes faster than light so like I said it would be to close t call but I rather look at this differently they both believe in dong whats right and protecting others so I know they would make a Invincible team
Goku’s nearly invincible he wouldnt even need kryptonite to take down superman. And superman cant use kai.
look I used to think goku would win too but if you read higher up this guy put out every fact of why superman would win I hate the idea of it too but superman would win he gave fact after fact and detail after detail as to why superman would win so again I hate the idea of it but superman would win.
^ Thanks. You’re one of the only pro-Goku people I’ve seen out there who’s open-minded enough to actually read and consider the other argument and conceded to the facts. You automatically earn my respect there. =P
Also, that’s SUPERMAN* shrugging off a planet exploding in his face. I don’t know why I put Goku. lol
I am an open minded person but I am sure of this that there must be an anime with person in it stronger than goku and there must be a person stronger than superman in dc or marvel if not some other american comic book company
somebody said that buu could beat superman which is true basied on the the info that was said but I feel he failed to note one thing I have yet to see an attack that superman can use that is as big or as powerfull as goku’s spirt bomb thats what killed buu yes superman could play keep away but buu can survive in space and he like goku can use instantranmission but I have not see superaman use an attack that could just turn buu into dust so quick as goku’s sprit bomb superman’s heat vision is 2 small lazers coming from his eyes buu I think would tire out superman and take him as stated and then game over for superman so could goku win no but could buu yes now if somebody knows an attack that superman has I do not know that could turn buu into dust as fast as goku’s spirt bomb I am sorry in that case all of what I have said is not right and I did not have all of the info I needed to back up what I said.
you know i just had a thought some people do not want to count gt goku cause it was not really ever going to be made but thanks to a group of people asking if they could it did so then we got super sayian 4 now I think that if we do count gt then goku at the end of gt fused with the eternal dragon would make goku stronger than superman cause then this would mean that goku’s attacks and speed are all up to or past god like levels in other words infenet everything plus I would think that goku can and could use the dragons wish powers when ever he wants now thats just a thought but if we do not count gt then yes superman wins hands down but after laying back and thinking about this I do belive goku would win sorry if I am wrong I belive this also lets goku go past his limitations such as you know he can not survive in space well with the dragon he could but its just what I have been thinking on I don’t know why I am not try to say that goku wins no matter what but basied on what I see here I think this makes goku surpass superman in every way and in anyway again sorry if I am wrong but I feel this changes everything but if you all who are biased belive that I have left out something please correct me but please I do not want to hear stuff from people who are all superman and no goku or people who are all goku and no superman I want to hear from people that are both sides based on fact by fact info and nothing more.
I LIKE THEM BOTH BUT ITS GOKU WHO WOULD WIN. I WROTE EARLIER BOUT HIM AND THE DRAGON BALLS IF IT HAD TO COME DOWN TO IT. PLUS ITS MAGIC DRAGONBALLS AT THAT. THERES NO WAY SUPERMAN WOULD HAVE WON.
EVERYTHING BOUT GOKU TOPS SUPERMAN EVENTUALY. THEY MADE HIM THAT POWERFUL. CANT B HELP
Matchstckgmr, I was the same guy who noted the thing about Buu. Superman would have no problem fighting from far away. His heat-vision isn’t exactly tiny. He can make it so it can engulf Buu.
http://lucianogalasso.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/superman-heat-vision.jpg
And ANTHONY, read the posts above yours. I posted how everything about Superman “tops” Goku. Because he was the one that they made that powerful. Superman’s the one who would win no contest.
Paragon I noted that goku at the end of gt fused with the dragonballs would beat superman cause when he is fused with the dragonballs he can live forever fight in space has inf everything making goku super pass not only superman but god like levels plus even if we did not count the dragonballs fused with goku then if superman did not kill goku or let goku live then goku would go and train to learn a higher level of super sayian that would surly beat superman it may take goku for ever in a year but he would and I am sure of this find a level of super sayian that can beat superman and sorry about the superman heat vision comment but I never did see a picture of superman using his heat beam and it being super big you know.
Goku would win for plenty of reasons. His tail is not a factor since it got removed before GT and all of it’s failures. Goku could just Spirit Bomb Superman into nothingness. Superman may have superhuman powers but Goku is all around better. When it comes to speed, in order for superman to even come CLOSE to Goku’s speed he would need at least three Earth suns. He can’t just up and change the flow of his energy at will. I doubt Goku would even need to go Super Saiyan seeing as at the end of Z, his base form power passed that of his Super Saiyan when he first accessed it. Superman just remains the same strength as the years go by though he is a powerful being. I could also see Goku hitting Superman with the Dragon Fist and insta-ending the fight. I could go on for days about Superman’s powers but I doubt it would be enough to take someone who could destroy an entire planet with one finger. I don’t think Superman has that much power. Maybe he could flatten entire countries but Goku could just snap his fingers and rape the world. Point being, Goku would win because it’s been proven that no matter how much stronger the foe is, he could still find a way to surpass them and win. Whether it be base form Goku or Super Saiyan Goku, Superman stands no chance. I honestly even think Uub would put Superman under and I cannot stand Uub. I’m a Superman fan but this battle is not something he would want a part in simply because Goku is a monster in every sense of the word.
That guy who posted that long ass post just to suck Superman’s dick is an obvious fanboy. Go read some DC comics faggot.
first off the guy that posted the facts about superman I don’t know who he is but I do give him this he did a great job on his research but he did not want to count gt basied on this one fact is that it did not show up in manga form like most anime do before becoming a anime and plus it was only supervised by akira not made it was made in his company but not made by him so he did not count super sayian 4 but to add on goku is passed super sayian 4 now that he is fused with the dragon balls so he is a god like levels or beyond now but the guy did post right on all his info about superman so would goku lose to superman if he was only in super sayian 3 yes but if we use goku at the end of gt fused with the dragon balls then superman loses hands down no form of superman could beat goku fused with dragonballs.
sorry to add on please stop fan boy on both sides and just take in the facts it pisses me off when I see somebody tell a goku fan boy or a superman fan boy to shut up or go suck a dick I only go based on the facts I am a goku fan boy but I state my facts first before I say anything be it this or something else.
listen I can sit here and talk all about goku but here is a site with any and all info on goku there is no info on what he is like after being fused with the dragon balls but I am sure he is loads more powerfull after it happenes http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Goku
here is all info on superman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman this is the number one place on the net I could find for any and all info on superman more info here at this site now if these places I have do not list any and all info on both superman and goku nothing will http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php
And how do you know that Goku fused with the dragon balls is immortal? For all we know, the magical properties are separate from him. Even if he was “immortal,” chances are, it’d only be immortal in the same sense that Shenron is. And remember, Demon King Piccolo was able to kill Shenron. So Goku could still die. And Shenron’s power was never able to exceed its creator. No proof that the dragon balls would empower Goku.
But the most important thing is to note that we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA if absorbing the dragon balls even increased Goku’s power. Pure speculation has no place in hypothetical battles. Also the same reason why I hate the whole, “if Goku could train more, he’d be able to reach new levels of Super Saiyan” argument. Pure speculation that goes against what we see in DBZ canon. SSJ3 is the pinnacle of his power. No more.
Also, the guy who’s calling me a fanboy, see Argument XI on my initial post. It’s just funny because I will always run into one of you guys. Apparently, anyone who uses sources to back up an argument that goes against yours is a fanboy. Should I post something more like, “lol Goku would win. Goku gots SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJ4, kamehameha, spirit bomb, and all Superman has is kryptonite weakness. One blast and Superman’s gone. I like Superman, but Goku would trounce him.” That seems to be the only argument I get from anyone pro-Goku. Nobody says why Superman’s abilities would fall short of Goku’s. They simply throw out random stuff about Goku and say, “see, Superman would lose!”
listen while I do not have info on if it does or does not increased goku’s power I belive it was said with out being said if you know what I mean just certain things point towards it I can’t say what all does but certain things that happened in the end of gt and in the one and only gt movie also had stuff that pointed at that and bare in mind demon king Piccolo did make it look like he did but the dragon was ok besides the dragon was stronger at the end of dbz it was able to grant 2 more wishes and on a plus goku is able to appear and reappear in random places when he is so this shows that he must have new found powers due to the dragonballs being fused with him the only reason I don’t list much on superman is cause I don’t know alot about him other than basic stuff you know but I do read info on him and compare him to goku who I do know alot about and I strongly belive that goku would win not because I am a goku fan boy but because I feel my facts back it up I respect anybody else belife and ideals on anything but I feel that my facts back up goku winning now if you belive I am wrong then thats ok you are entitled to say such things freedom of speech anyways I stand by this goku wins only because I feel my facts show he would win sorry to if I pissed you off that is not my goal on here today or any day my goal like you is to state my facts and back them up and say if ether goku or superman would win nothing more anyways sorry if I pissed you off I did not mean to piss off ether side be it the goku pro side or the superman pro side I am sorry thats all I can say
Implied =/= proof
No, you can’t use what you think they implied. What if I said that my interpretation of Goku “reappearing” was that they were implying that Goku’s legend lives on, but he was still dead? You can’t use those things in an argument.
And it’s nice that you’re open-minded and all, but reading wall-of-text posts that doesn’t properly capitalize and punctuate is VERY annoying on the eyes. And I’m getting tired of repeatedly saying that too. So unless you change it, this would be the last time I reply to your posts. Don’t take any offense or anything–I’m not forcing you to change it (just advising you that nearly everyone on the internet hates reading posts like that because it’s hard to understand and can strain the eyes)–but just like you’re free to post however you want, I’m free to not read posts that I find difficult to read.
I understand that I only post like I do cause its a pain in the ass to properly capitalize and punctuate. Anyways sorry that your idea’s and my idea’s differ from on another how ever one thing I do know is if you take into one basic fact its this. As time and time again shows us Goku has always found away to get stronger and beat his enemy. Now I can understand you not wanting to count DBGT ok but that aside you can not deny that Goku has always found away to get stronger and beat his enemy right? Every time he had the only person he did not beat in a fight was cell. Now odds are if Akira did not deside to have cell blow himself up but to let Goku keep fighting Cell instead of puting Gohan in.
Goku would have got super saiyan 2 first and beat cell cause that how it always worked. See my point basied on that alone Goku would end up getting strong enough to beat Superman. Only because Goku makes it his number one goal to get stronger to beat an enemy if he is to strong to beat at the time. If not then in the middle of battle he uses some sort of now attack that would hurt Superman and kill him or Goku would go to a higher level of super sayian. Why?
Cause thats how it always works for Goku. I will admit I don’t have alot of info on Superman cause one I am not all that into american comics. I hate the animation that americans uses for the comics plus I don’t like any of the Marvel or DC super heros. Anime has much better story lines and heros in it and they do stuff that american heros don’t. I do have enough info of Superman in my head to say that I feel with the info I have put up will show that Superman would lose to Goku.
The other ways this could go Goku trains before he has to fight Superman cause he was warned of him coming. The other way Superman comes and fights Goku wins but does not kill Goku and Goku goes and trains and gets stronger and beats him. Thats how I see things working. I hope this is a much better post I hope I do not hear any problems with this one.
I also would like to add that Goku was alive at the end of DBZ. Goku got brought back when they were fighting Buu at the time Elder Kai gave his life to bring back Goku. Also as you know if you know anything about DBZ anybody that is dead has a halo over there head there for Goku is alive at the end of DBGT still. Cause the end of DBGT takes place 100 years later or more so he must live forever cause he would be in his 90′s at the end of DBGT and he still looked not even a day over 25 at best. He was turned into a kid again but he would still be in his 90′s so Goku can live forever and be forever young.
First of all, thank you for typing properly this time.
Second, I can’t believe you don’t see what’s wrong with your argument.
Basically, you’re saying, “Character X never lost a fight in his series, that must mean that he can win against anyone in ANY series. Even if it was God from the Bible, he’ll find a way to overpower him. He always does because he never loses in his series. Well, okay, he did lose once, but you know what, if the writer had written that differently, I’m sure he wouldn’t have.” Really. Think about that for a while.
Also, (again keep in mind that DBGT is non-canon) Piccolo DID kill Shenron. Kami just revived him. Even if Goku was “immortal” at the end of DBGT, it’s safe to assume that it would only be in the same sense as Shenron. He won’t die of old age, but can still be killed by others.
I am not saying Goku could kill God but Superman is no God and nether is Goku. But we have never seen Goku at the end of GT fight anybody. So who is to say he is or is not strong enough to beat Superman. Superman can lose just as easy as Goku could in a fight the way this would work out is. Superman comes to the world of DBZ and desides to fight Goku so in that sence Superman be the bad guy is Goku’s world.
So Goku would win the fight cause thats how it plays out in his world. But this also means if Goku goes to Superman’s world Superman wins cause its his world and thats how is plays out plus Superman has died many times in his world of DC. Goku has died only one time in his world I say again 1 time not 2 not 3 hell not even 100 but 1. Superman has died that I know of 3 times and some how ether got back to life or got put in some machine and got fixed or they just let him die and that ended that version of Superman. There has only been 1 version of Goku and while DBGT should have happened it did and i say we count it cause it was made and Akria did supervise it but Akria also did supervise DBZ Online and you want to count that so I say we count DBGT.
DBZ Online was supervised by Akria I seen it listed that is was only supervised not made. So there four DBGT should count.
Goku will flog the crap out of superman goku’s faster stronger he’s just 10 times better and if he was ssj4 he would destroy superman in a blink of an eye
Jye please read the guy that posted info on superman before stating you thoughts on goku or superman winning thank you. I belive goku would win but a guy I am currently speaking too belives that superman would win.
“I am not saying Goku could kill God but Superman is no God and nether is Goku.”
^ You missed the whole point of that. I’m saying that claiming that “Goku could beat anyone if he keeps training” is the same as the whole “Batman could beat anybody with prep time.”
Look at it from their perspective. Batman has been able to beat anybody–even those who far outclass him–if he has the time to prepare (he gets “crazy prepared” they say), therefore if he has to face ANYBODY (even Goku) he can beat them as long as he has prep time.
Or even take someone like (I’m just going for a normal human this time) Jackie Chan and his team from Jackie Chan Adventures. They’ve been able to beat anybody in their show as long as Uncle has time to research. Therefore, Jackie Chan and his team can beat Goku too as long as Uncle has time to research.
Seriously, logic like that can’t fly in hypothetical matches.
“But we have never seen Goku at the end of GT fight anybody. So who is to say he is or is not strong enough to beat Superman. Superman can lose just as easy as Goku could in a fight the way this would work out is. Superman comes to the world of DBZ and desides to fight Goku so in that sence Superman be the bad guy is Goku’s world.”
^ This is exactly my point. It’s PURE SPECULATION how that fight would turn out. What are we going to base Goku’s strengths on when we have no idea how absorbing the dragon balls affected him at all? PURE SPECULATION is always thrown out in hypothetical matches. We go by CONCRETE EVIDENCE. So even if we were to count DBGT, we would have to count Goku BEFORE he absorbed the dragon balls.
“There has only been 1 version of Goku and while DBGT should have happened it did and i say we count it cause it was made and Akria did supervise it but Akria also did supervise DBZ Online and you want to count that so I say we count DBGT.
DBZ Online was supervised by Akria I seen it listed that is was only supervised not made. So there four DBGT should count.”
^ DBGT wasn’t made or supervised by Toriyama. DBO was at least supervised by him. He even had some part in the story while he had none in DBGT. That was all Toei. Same goes for the movies. And the fillers in the show. So you’re completely wrong on this part. DBGT is non-canon. Because Toei added so many things to the story through the movies and the fillers, the animation itself is a separate canon altogether. Ergo we go by original source material.
“So Goku would win the fight cause thats how it plays out in his world. But this also means if Goku goes to Superman’s world Superman wins cause its his world and thats how is plays out plus Superman has died many times in his world of DC. Goku has died only one time in his world I say again 1 time not 2 not 3 hell not even 100 but 1. Superman has died that I know of 3 times and some how ether got back to life or got put in some machine and got fixed or they just let him die and that ended that version of Superman.
^ AFAIK Superman died once against Doomsday. (When were the other times?) Goku lost and died against Raditz then lost then died against Cell. TWICE, not once. Not that this point is relevant anyway. You’re grasping at straws. Let’s see. Goku died twice. Elmo from Sesame Street never died. Therefore Elmo can beat Superman. Seriously, certain things that happen in their canon have no place in their argument because if you stop and think about it, it doesn’t determine who would win against the two. How many times they lost or won isn’t the determinant because they have different opponents to face against and Superman has a much longer history than Goku. Stop bringing irrelevant things into discussion.
Also, there’s no “because Goku wins in his story, if he’s in ANY story, he will just win again, because that’s how it plays out in his world.” Really, that’s true of nearly ANY main character. That means any main character can beat other main characters because that’s how it plays out in their world. Logic = out the window.
Ok you know what just for the sake of all this I am going to lie to myself and to you Superman wins. I belive thats all you want to hear so I will give it to you do what you want after hearing this. I really don’t care and this is the last time I get on this post I know what I am talking about. So if you put anything up here after this like I am a cry baby or what ever or something along the lines of that I will not see it nor will I care to tell you the truth. I stand by this no matter what and there is nobody that can change my mind not you or anybody else and to be honest I feel if I was to speak to Akira and the maker of Superman I feel that they both would say Goku would win. Anyways good bye to you and everybody else on here.
Good Luck To Anybody Else That Tries To Prove This Guy Wrong He Clearly Knows Everything And Anything And We Are All Not Smart Enough To Beat Him In Any Metal Level. All He Wants To Here Is HE IS RIGHT AND NOTHING MORE GOOD BYE EVERYBODY!!!!!
^ If you really are Matchstckgmr, then I take back what I said earlier. There is NO pro-Goku debater on the internet who isn’t a closed-minded fanboy. Don’t you even know how an argument works? I’ve presented my argument properly and the most I ever get in return are ad hominem arguments or poorly constructed ones.
I’m not going to call you a crybaby, because ad hominem attacks are the last resort of fanboys who can’t present a proper argument. My argument is solid and can stand on its own. I always take ad hominem arguments as a way for the other side to shamelessly acknowledge their defeat.
Also, if you really are Matchstckgmr, you’ve already claimed not knowing much about Superman yet know that Goku would still win, ignoring the arguments presented in regards to WHY he wouldn’t. And now you’re claiming that NOTHING will ever change your mind. That’s the very definition of fanboyism.
yeah so can the fanboys of superman get off his cock… look superman is cool and all but he never gets stronger….he doesnt train he doesnt know martial arts he doesnt do shit, thats the biggest difference from super heroes usually and anime. Superman is probaly just as strong as like fucking raditz…. because honestly raditz was super fast could pick up extremely heavy objects and do all that. every person on planet vegeta is as strong as a superman. If goku is the strongest of his kind and all his kind is at least as strong as superman, superman would lose…im sorry get over it superman fans i dont know of any way he can win…and dont give me he has the power of the sun bullshit k thx bye
Superman cannot generate enough force to damage Goku. We know this by taking a look at both character’s feats of strength.
Look at Vegeta for example. He had a Power Level of at least 18,000 during the Saiyan Saga, and was capable of destroying Planets with minimal effort.
The last directly numbered and recorded Power Level was that of Super Saiyan Goku during the Frieza Saga calculated at 150,000,000. Now, Goku’s Power Level was about equal with Frieza at 100% in his Final Form (not counting Cyborg Frieza). Now, see, Majin Buu in his weakest from, was 1,000 times more powerful than Frieza. What is 150,000,000 times 1,000? It is 150,000,000,000. Now, that is as far as I can calculate the Power Levels in Dragon Ball Z, although it has been calculated much further.
Now, if a being with a Power Level of 18,000 (like Vegeta was) can wipe an entire Planet full of formidable warriors (in their own right) out of existence without breaking a sweat, doing it just for shits and giggles, what is a being with a Power Level of over 150 BILLION (like Majin Buu) capable of? And for that matter, Goku was stronger than Majin Buu in his Super Saiyan 3 form in DBZ, and Goku in DBGT attained Super Saiyan 4, a much larger jump in power. I wish I had the calculations for his strength at that point, but I’ve heard of it being estimated to be in the TRILLIONS (when fused with Vegeta as Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta at least).
Think about it. Super Buu was capable of destroying the entire Universe (and was in the midst of doing so as a last resort out of anger before Vegito stopped him) and was severely outclassed in power by Vegito.
And it isn’t only the Power of the fighters in the DBZ Universe which is unrivaled. Their Defense is impenetrable. The very type of attacks they use with such devastating effects are blocked with their bare-hands, or Ki shields. The fighters survive extreme cold and heat, including ice and lava. Their speed is greater than that of the speed of light (Raditz at a Power Level of 1,200 was capable of moving at these speeds, and is considered a weakling) and Goku himself has a technique which moves him to any spot instantly.
And what about their other character specific abilities, including creating copies of themselves, blinding their opponents, creating false images of themselves to trick their opponents, beams that can turn beings into food, complete healing and whatnot. Hell, they even have Senzu Beans which can bring a person from the brink of death back to full health immediately upon consumption.
Could someone tell me what Superman’s greatest feat of strength is? “Moving” a planet I guess or something?
Fans of Superman, please be reasonable when reviewing the information provided. Superman would be at the mercy of Goku. Hell, he would be at the mercy of Raditz. The only Z Fighter he is capable of beating is Master Roshi, and even then he better not get hit with a Full Power Kamehameha or it’s probably over (but I don’t think Superman would allow Master Roshi to transform and fully charge the attack, so I think Master Roshi would lose)…oh, or Kami if you count him.
^ You note “Superman moving a planet” like it’s nothing. That’s physical strength alone. What’s the most impressive feat has a DBZ character done through physical strength alone? Goku at base strength at the end of Z could barely lift a mountain. Moving a planet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barely lifting a mountain. Fact.
In DBZ, ki attacks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical strength. They may be planet busters at that level, but Superman can tank shots like those. Just look at my earlier scans. If Superman is much more superior in terms of physical strength and speed, one punch is more than enough to decimate Goku.
I note Superman moving a planet like it is nothing because that’s precisely what it is when compared to the feats of strength Z Fighters/Villains are capable of.
What’s the greatest feat of physical strength a DBZ character is capable of you ask? Frieza was capable of destroying planets physically, so you can take it from there to figure the strength of stronger characters. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Frieza)
Oh, and I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Goku “barely being able to lift a mountain” or only being able to lift 40 tons at maximum.
“Planet Busters”? Did you even read what I wrote? Planet Busting was Saiyan Saga status; by the end of DBZ, about anyone can destroy a planet with ease. Dimension Ripping and Universe Breaking is what all the cool kids are into by the time Buu was battling Vegito. Tank that.
Now, assuming Superman somehow turned out to have an edge on Goku in terms of physical strength based power, there’s also defensive strength which is equally important. Goku smacks away blasts capable of destroying planets with his bare hands like it’s nothing, and is shown to be able to take Planet Busting blasts to the face and take no damage. Punches able to destroy planets aren’t even enough to affect Goku, so both Ki and Physical attacks of such enormous power are rendered obsolete. His defense is unrivaled.
And there’s the matter of Speed. What makes you think Superman is faster? It is never explicitly stated how fast he’s capable of going. As far as I can tell, he just goes so fast that weird shit happens such as “Leaving Infinity” or “Going back in time.” It is impressive but isn’t a speed we can measure, and doesn’t out-do Goku. Raditz was faster than the speed of light, and he was just garbage. And it seems you’re trying to eliminate the usefulness of Instant Transmission, which is a good way to try and get Superman’s speed up on a pedestal, but more of a cheap trick. IT doesn’t need a Ki lock for short distances, just long ones, so it is capable of being used, literally, instantly. I can’t see Superman hoping for anything better than a tie here, which is just a nice way of me saying “Superman is slower but I’ll pretend that he isn’t.”
And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.
Let’s do some hypotheticals. The way I see it, their power’s somewhat close, but even if Superman turned to be significantly faster, significantly more physically powerful offensively, and significantly defensively superior, then Goku would still have more Fighting Skill. What is power if not housed in a warrior? A waste, that’s what.
You mentioned Personality, well, I’m going to cover that and FIGHTING SKILL (which you purposely payed less attention to when analyzing the characters). Superman isn’t a member of a warrior race which lusts for fighting and destruction by nature. He has less passion for fighting. He has no ambition to be the best nor has he ever fought with someone of such impeccable fighting genius who’s nearly equal to himself in terms speed and power. Goku would love nothing more than to fight someone stronger than he is. It is when Goku is fighting someone who is a challenge to him that he becomes stronger. This is not just something nerdy I’m saying to make Goku seem cool, but it is a literal source of his power and an ability well established within the parameters of his character in the series. Much like emotions and great need push a Saiyan’s power, so too does their fighting spirit. It’s an ability in his repertoire just like his Kamehameha; he is built to fight. When we get down to it, Superman is no fighter, and despite being significantly (but not overwhelmingly) statistically superior on paper in this hypothetical scenario which I propose, when it comes down to really fighting, there is no way he can match his flawless combat skill and spirit and he would be overcome.
Sorry for the sloppy presentation, I kinda rushed this.
@ poepoe29 they cant bring goku back wit da earth dbs b/s u can only be brought back once wit them
dumass
Hi every one I belive goku would win because. I compared both the guy that said superman would win facts with this guy that posted that goku would wins facts and it leans over more to goku. Due to his facts over running in a sense the superman fact list. So on a fact by fact base it be goku not superman to quote him here it is.
“I note Superman moving a planet like it is nothing because that’s precisely what it is when compared to the feats of strength Z Fighters/Villains are capable of.
What’s the greatest feat of physical strength a DBZ character is capable of you ask? Frieza was capable of destroying planets physically, so you can take it from there to figure the strength of stronger characters. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Frieza)
Oh, and I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Goku “barely being able to lift a mountain” or only being able to lift 40 tons at maximum.
“Planet Busters”? Did you even read what I wrote? Planet Busting was Saiyan Saga status; by the end of DBZ, about anyone can destroy a planet with ease. Dimension Ripping and Universe Breaking is what all the cool kids are into by the time Buu was battling Vegito. Tank that.
Now, assuming Superman somehow turned out to have an edge on Goku in terms of physical strength based power, there’s also defensive strength which is equally important. Goku smacks away blasts capable of destroying planets with his bare hands like it’s nothing, and is shown to be able to take Planet Busting blasts to the face and take no damage. Punches able to destroy planets aren’t even enough to affect Goku, so both Ki and Physical attacks of such enormous power are rendered obsolete. His defense is unrivaled.
And there’s the matter of Speed. What makes you think Superman is faster? It is never explicitly stated how fast he’s capable of going. As far as I can tell, he just goes so fast that weird shit happens such as “Leaving Infinity” or “Going back in time.” It is impressive but isn’t a speed we can measure, and doesn’t out-do Goku. Raditz was faster than the speed of light, and he was just garbage. And it seems you’re trying to eliminate the usefulness of Instant Transmission, which is a good way to try and get Superman’s speed up on a pedestal, but more of a cheap trick. IT doesn’t need a Ki lock for short distances, just long ones, so it is capable of being used, literally, instantly. I can’t see Superman hoping for anything better than a tie here, which is just a nice way of me saying “Superman is slower but I’ll pretend that he isn’t.”
And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.
Let’s do some hypotheticals. The way I see it, their power’s somewhat close, but even if Superman turned to be significantly faster, significantly more physically powerful offensively, and significantly defensively superior, then Goku would still have more Fighting Skill. What is power if not housed in a warrior? A waste, that’s what.
You mentioned Personality, well, I’m going to cover that and FIGHTING SKILL (which you purposely payed less attention to when analyzing the characters). Superman isn’t a member of a warrior race which lusts for fighting and destruction by nature. He has less passion for fighting. He has no ambition to be the best nor has he ever fought with someone of such impeccable fighting genius who’s nearly equal to himself in terms speed and power. Goku would love nothing more than to fight someone stronger than he is. It is when Goku is fighting someone who is a challenge to him that he becomes stronger. This is not just something nerdy I’m saying to make Goku seem cool, but it is a literal source of his power and an ability well established within the parameters of his character in the series. Much like emotions and great need push a Saiyan’s power, so too does their fighting spirit. It’s an ability in his repertoire just like his Kamehameha; he is built to fight. When we get down to it, Superman is no fighter, and despite being significantly (but not overwhelmingly) statistically superior on paper in this hypothetical scenario which I propose, when it comes down to really fighting, there is no way he can match his flawless combat skill and spirit and he would be overcome.”
Now to quote the superman guy and I want you guys to compare like I did feel free to say if you agree with me.
“I. SSJ3 vs current Superman
- First, we have to establish that the fight will be between SSJ3 vs Superman as he currently is. Dragonball Online, a new MMORPG has a new storyline that completely disregards the events of DBGT. DBGT’s storyline was done entirely by the studio that animated DBZ whereas creator Akira Toriyama has personally supervised the MMORPG’s storyline. That means that DB Online should be treated as the canonical continuation of DBZ and not DBGT. That means that all events of DBGT should be disregarded, including the existence of an SSJ4 transformation. And just to add, all movie events and filler material that does not show up in the original source material–the manga–are also considered non-canon, because they create many plotholes.
If the pro-Goku side wishes to use a non-canon version of Goku (SSJ4 Goku), then it’s just fair to use Superman One Million, who has gained a whole slew of superpowers, such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, control over reality, time, space, magic, etc., and is also in possession of the universe’s most powerful weapon. To name a few. So believe me when I say that it’s also in your best interest to just stick to SSJ3 Goku, okay?
As for which version of Superman to use, the way I see it, we can either use “pre-Crisis Superman” (that is, take both at their strongest), Superman as he currently is (basically take both at the end of their respective storylines), or Superman Prime (the only logical scenario in which we can have both fight and still take personality into consideration). The best one to use IMO is the current Superman, who is the weakest of the three anyway.
(Note that this was typed up maybe around 2006 or so, and I don’t really read that much of DC to keep up with how Superman is now, so there may be some discrepancies due to changes that has occurred between now and then.)
The thing is though, the current Superman, after sundipping, can become nearly as strong as he was pre-Crisis, so for convenience’s sake, I’ll be posting scans of current Superman, Superboy-Prime, and pre-Crisis to support my argument. Here we go.
II. Physical Strength
- Goku: Vegeta trained at 300x Earth’s gravity during the Androids saga. (IIRC, we don’t have any real basis for their strength after that, but this should suffice.) Assuming that Vegeta weighs 300 pounds, that means he’s able to lift ~90,000 pounds during the Androids saga. Goku is much stronger than Vegeta and gets even stronger in the next sagas (especially after he transforms to SSJ3), so we’ll say that he can lift MUCH more than that by the end of DBZ. Someone has informed me that Goku in his normal state can only lift 40 tons at the end of DBZ and struggles to lift a mountain. (I don’t have a scan to go with this fact, but it doesn’t matter.)
- Superman: Superman can augment his super strength to near infinite levels, at which point, he can literally move planets from one solar system to another barehanded. http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superboytowingplanets1400026uv.jpg
Now using Earth (which he has moved before here: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg with only three quarters of his strength) as our basis, that means he can move an object that weighs 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds across solar systems.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/headline_universe/earth_weight.html (The Earth’s mass is 13,160,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds if you want to calculate things yourself).
It’s a stretch to assume that Goku goes from lifting ~90,000 lbs. to being able to move 5,978,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. between the Cell saga to his end-DBZ SSJ3 transformation.
Here’s a good clue why: neither Goku nor his enemies ever show themselves to have the strength to move planets all throughout DBZ through physical means alone. In fact, all efforts to destroy a planet in DBZ were done through a ki attack, not by physical means and in DBZ, ki attacks >>>> physical strength.
III. Speed
- Goku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79pY1GLtNUc&feature=related shows that SSJ Gotenks (who is stronger than SSJ Goku) gets clocked to be much slower than light speed. (Ignore the portion that uses the anime as basis and go straight to the manga scan.) That makes Instant Transmission Goku’s fastest way of moving from one place to another and keep in mind that he needs a ki lock to use it, which does take a very tiny amount of time. And when facing someone with Superman’s speed, that tiny amount of time is a very wide window. Aside from that, Goku is, at his base, slower than lightspeed.
- http://i28.tinypic.com/14jxphl.jpg shows Superman flying from Earth to Saturn in 4 minutes. Light takes 17 minutes to reach Saturn, so that alone proves that Superman as he currently is, can fly four times faster than the speed of light. Pre-Crisis Superman would then put Goku to shame as he can move fast enough to break the time barrier (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/stuffoffiction/Comicbooks/Additional/?action=view¤t=SupermansGreatestFeats3.jpg) which means that he can simply fly Goku to the beginning of time (which he’s done to Brainiac, but I have no scan of that), when there are no planets, so Goku cannot survive.
Now, some people claim that Superman does not use his speed when he fights. That’s not true.
http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=708yd.png
http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwvssupesheatvisionta3.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/28bgps0.jpg
Supes blitzes a lot of his opponents, so that argument against him is flawed.
Also, Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, so ki attacks are hypothetically useless.
http://i31.tinypic.com/35n6jab.jpg
IV. Durability
- Goku can’t survive in space.
- Superman can survive in space.
(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IN THIS ENTIRE POST.) Goku’s inability to survive in outer space is a major disadvantage that will most likely be the deciding factor of this match. Now some people will point out that Freeza had that same advantage, but I want to point out the actual results of the match. Freeza survived the battle and Goku would’ve died were it not for that space pod. The only reason Goku won was because of sheer dumb luck and Freeza’s arrogance. Superman does not have that same failing as Freeza and luck is disregarded in hypothetical matches. That means that since this is a hypothetical battle, this fact alone points towards Superman ultimately winning the fight.
Both are powerful enough to destroy a planet. If the fight gets so destructive that the planet they’re fighting on gets destroyed, Goku will be the one most likely to suffer (unless he uses Instant Transmission and if this is how the scenario plays out, it just proves that the best Goku can pull is a stalemate). Also, (I’m not sure if Superman still has this ability, so someone correct me if I’m wrong,) AFAIK, Superman (like Flash) can vibrate his molecules fast enough to become intangible, which means that Goku can’t even hit him.
Also, Goku’s inability to follow Superman to space is a major drawback. Superman could fly out into space and use his telescopic vision to see where Goku is and use his heat vision, which is strong enough to fix a hole in the cosmos http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2383/supes2po7.jpg to burn a hole on Goku’s head.
And just for laughs, Pre-Crisis Supes could even fly out and simply sneeze http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9543/supersneezeae9og9.jpg and Goku will be gone. Alternatively, he could also throw an object weighing trillions of tons http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2mw9.jpg smack into Goku’s face, or push/pull the planet Goku’s on into the sun. (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14288/352229-4901.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1609/supermanbatman13pg109es.jpg)
Now another thing to point out is the question of whether or not Superman can survive Goku’s ki attacks. As I showed earlier, Superman is fast enough to dodge Darkseid’s Omega Beams, so he is hypothetically fast enough to dodge Goku’s ki attacks, thus making this argument irrelevant. In the event that an attack does connect though, Superman has flown through a field of kryptonite and then through a red sun before (both of which drain his powers) and still survived.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4568/scan00197tnwo9.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1107/scan00228qdaj6.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6425/scan00231lkoc2.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1319/scan00246wmrh2.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3958/scan00253nfnx3.jpg
So it all depends on what is more destructive, a red sun, or Goku’s ki attack. In any case, Superman should be able to dodge the attack, so withstanding it is irrelevant. (And yes, the guy he’s fighting is the same one who towed planets using chains and threw an object that weighs trillions of tons to a distance billions of lightyears away.)
Oh, and FYI, the spirit bomb wouldn’t work on Superman because he’s not evil.
V. Personality
- There’s been arguments that Superman wouldn’t use his speed in a fight or that he would hold back because he’s a “boy scout.” Here’s proof that that is not true as well.
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce54gr.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsmajorforce61ab.jpg
http://returntocomics.typepad.com/photos/misc/superman_kills_hbomb.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/heat_vision1.jpg
Again, Superman has blitzed (at lightspeed) many of his opponents before.
Besides, if we take personality into account, Goku isn’t likely to use kryptonite against Superman. (He gave Cell a senzu bean for crying out loud.)
Ultimately, if you take personality into account, Superman and Goku wouldn’t kill each other, so there’s no real way this match can be carried out since neither one will go all out. That is why personality should be ignored in hypothetical battles and assume that they are “bloodlusted.” (The only fair plausible scenario in which personality can be taken into account is Superman-Prime vs Goku.)
But if we assume that they‘re bloodlusted, then what’s to stop Superman from simply flying Goku straight into the sun or out into the universe? (Which he’s done repeatedly to opponents.)
VI. Weaknesses
- Goku: Goku cannot sustain his SSJ3 transformation for very long, meaning that he can only fight at his peak in a very short amount of time. Aside from that, his only weaknesses are the limits to his strength, speed, and durability, and the aforementioned inability to survive in outer space. (http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4240/4211014db.gif)
- Superman: Superman has a very well-known weakness to kryptonite. But in his storyline, Superman has gathered almost all of them and threw them into the sun, and gave the remaining pieces to Batman. That means that for the sake of this argument, there is no kryptonite that can be used against Superman.
Besides, Superman can still hold his own even after being weakened. (See my earlier scan of Superman flying through a field of kryptonite, then through a red sun, all the while carrying Superboy-Prime, who is much stronger than he is.)
Of course, Superman is also susceptible to magic and mind control, but Goku isn’t magic and he can’t control minds either.
VII. Dragonballs
- Another argument that someone else might present is that Goku can use the dragonballs against Superman. Now Goku has a dragon radar and Superman has his super hearing, X-ray vision, and superior speed. Both have a really good chance of finding the dragonballs, but then this becomes more of a race, and once they get to the location, they’ll probably just wind up duking it out then, so it’s just best to avoid this argument altogether. And let’s not forget, Goku prefers to fight an enemy directly rather than use the dragonballs on them.
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=157
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=158
http://view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+28&page=159
So the dragonballs are a moot point in this argument.
VIII. Martial Arts Skills
- Superman has had some training, but Goku is definitely the superior martial artist of the two. This advantage, however, will not help him overcome his other shortcomings.
IX. Wizard’s Versus Battle
- Now, some will point out that Wizard did a take on this match and published that Goku would be the winner. First of all, it should be noted that that match was not canon. Wizard does those hypothetical matches a lot and if they were canon, then that would mean that a lot of fictional characters would be dead in their respective universes. It’s just a take by other writers, so it’s not canon, and sometimes it can be completely incorrect.
If you read that particular versus battle, you’ll see that they use a LOT of completely wrong information.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/AngstromZero/superman_vs_goku.jpg
The most obvious inconsistensies are:
1. Goku being able to fight in space.
2. Superman not surviving a punch that would put him in collision with Earth’s surface. (He’s been punched though the Earth and shrugged it off.)
3. Some unheard of “particle flux” that results from Goku’s IT.
4. Goku at his base form being strong enough to land a heavy blow on Supes.
So not only was that versus match not canon, it was completely filled with false information. I mean, even the premise is ridiculous. Eighth dragonball? Not only is Goku familiar enough with the dragonballs to know that that information is false, he also knows Kami/Piccolo/Dende and would’ve simply gone to them and asked them to confirm it before trusting someone who he most likely sensed to have an evil intention.
X. Faster than a speeding bullet…
- Most people seem to forget that there are various incarnations of Superman and are completely biased in choosing which one to pit against Goku in this argument. There’s absolutely no reason to go with Superman from the movies or a past, weaker version of him other than to sway the argument to Goku’s favor. To use a non-canon or an outdated incarnation of Superman would be as unfairly biased as say, pitting DB Goku against pre-Crisis Superman.
That said, a lot of people seem to have very little knowledge of Superman. “Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” has not been true for over half a century now. I mean, the guy can fly out to space. That just goes to show that “able to leap tall buildings in a single bound” is definitely an outdated understatement. So, if you’re going to use arguments against Superman, please make sure that it is up to date and accurate. (I’m being a bit of hypocrite here since I have admitted that this argument is a couple of years old, but AFAIK, there hasn‘t been that much changes between then and now anyway.)
The same goes for Goku. Know the difference between filler and canon material and stick to using what is canon.
XI. You’re a Superman fanboy.
- I’m adding this here because this is the most common illogical argument used against me.
I am, with all honesty, not a fan of DC. And I don’t even like Superman all that much. The reasons why I’ve grown to dislike Superman though (being way too overpowered) are the very reasons why I believe he would win against Goku. That said, I like Goku better as a character overall.
Anyway, please refrain from using this logic against me and focus on the points laid out above.
To further add to my proof that I am not supporting Superman out of fanboyism, I should point out that I don’t believe that Superman is unbeatable. In fact, I think there is another DBZ character capable of defeating Superman. I believe that any incarnation of Buu should be able to accomplish that feat, but it would depend on the scenario.
So you might ask, why then, do I believe that Buu can defeat Superman but Goku, who defeated Buu, can’t? Simple. Buu won’t win by overpowering Superman, but by absorbing him, which Goku obviously can’t do. This is where the “scenario” part plays in. If Superman is aware of Buu’s absorption technique, then his super speed, long range heat beams, and heightened senses should be enough to play a good keep-away game and ultimately destroy Buu. However, if Superman is unaware of this ability, Buu can easily take him by surprise and absorb him. And since Superman is susceptible to magic and Buu was created by magic, it’s logical to assume that Superman would get absorbed easily.
So there you have it. Superman wins this one easily due to numerous advantages.”
One more thing the writer of the superman is really Paragon The goku write guy be BearerOfBadNews next I like to add that. Matchstckgmr or whatever I can say I wished I joined sooner to only keep him here for I feel that he be happy to see that somebody has just proved this Paragon guy wrong. So I do not think Matchstckgmr will mind when I thank BearerOfBadNews on his be hafe for showing Paragon that he was wrong about superman winning. Too add on I also think Paragon should not have replied to Matchstckgmr’s post cause he said he never becoming back to this site again dumb on paragon’s part if you ask me. Matchstckgmr is not going to see it.
sorry my post is so long but I needed to get my point out there.
Superman would win, no doubt. Goku is my favourite but i mean come on look at the facts people ! Superman cannot be killed unless he is exposed to kryptonite or the sun is destroyed as he gets his energy from earths yellow sun. Supermans energy is pretty much unlimited aslong as the sun remains where it is. Goku can die however and has done several times. He does run out of energy and needs stuff to recharge himself such as senzu beans. Unless goku got his hands on some kryptonite or destroyed the sun (Which would kill him anyway as it would go supernova and wipe out all surrounding planets, so he wouldnt do that. Also superman would probably live for a while longer with his remaining energy and would still win. Also before anyone mentions the dragon balls you would only get one wish. If it was for the planets to be restored they wouldnt be able to survive without the sun, if you bring back the sun superman survives and wins again). Basically in a fair fight superman would win. In a dirty fight superman would win (unless kryptonite was introduced).
First off goku has died only 2 times superman has died 3 to 4 times in comic books and cartoons. Also you fail to remember that sayians get there energy from the moon much like superman does the sun. Also if you count GT goku used the earth as another energy sorce cause the moon was not around to turn into super sayian 4. so all in all goku has 3 counting senzu beans, the moon, and again if you count GT the earth. Plus you clearly did not read the info on superman for for you sake Oscar Partridge I will post it here again for you to see. This info on Goku was not typed by me but by BarerOfBadNews.
“I note Superman moving a planet like it is nothing because that’s precisely what it is when compared to the feats of strength Z Fighters/Villains are capable of.
What’s the greatest feat of physical strength a DBZ character is capable of you ask? Frieza was capable of destroying planets physically, so you can take it from there to figure the strength of stronger characters. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Frieza)
Oh, and I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Goku “barely being able to lift a mountain” or only being able to lift 40 tons at maximum.
“Planet Busters”? Did you even read what I wrote? Planet Busting was Saiyan Saga status; by the end of DBZ, about anyone can destroy a planet with ease. Dimension Ripping and Universe Breaking is what all the cool kids are into by the time Buu was battling Vegito. Tank that.
Now, assuming Superman somehow turned out to have an edge on Goku in terms of physical strength based power, there’s also defensive strength which is equally important. Goku smacks away blasts capable of destroying planets with his bare hands like it’s nothing, and is shown to be able to take Planet Busting blasts to the face and take no damage. Punches able to destroy planets aren’t even enough to affect Goku, so both Ki and Physical attacks of such enormous power are rendered obsolete. His defense is unrivaled.
And there’s the matter of Speed. What makes you think Superman is faster? It is never explicitly stated how fast he’s capable of going. As far as I can tell, he just goes so fast that weird shit happens such as “Leaving Infinity” or “Going back in time.” It is impressive but isn’t a speed we can measure, and doesn’t out-do Goku. Raditz was faster than the speed of light, and he was just garbage. And it seems you’re trying to eliminate the usefulness of Instant Transmission, which is a good way to try and get Superman’s speed up on a pedestal, but more of a cheap trick. IT doesn’t need a Ki lock for short distances, just long ones, so it is capable of being used, literally, instantly. I can’t see Superman hoping for anything better than a tie here, which is just a nice way of me saying “Superman is slower but I’ll pretend that he isn’t.”
And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.
Let’s do some hypotheticals. The way I see it, their power’s somewhat close, but even if Superman turned to be significantly faster, significantly more physically powerful offensively, and significantly defensively superior, then Goku would still have more Fighting Skill. What is power if not housed in a warrior? A waste, that’s what.
You mentioned Personality, well, I’m going to cover that and FIGHTING SKILL (which you purposely payed less attention to when analyzing the characters). Superman isn’t a member of a warrior race which lusts for fighting and destruction by nature. He has less passion for fighting. He has no ambition to be the best nor has he ever fought with someone of such impeccable fighting genius who’s nearly equal to himself in terms speed and power. Goku would love nothing more than to fight someone stronger than he is. It is when Goku is fighting someone who is a challenge to him that he becomes stronger. This is not just something nerdy I’m saying to make Goku seem cool, but it is a literal source of his power and an ability well established within the parameters of his character in the series. Much like emotions and great need push a Saiyan’s power, so too does their fighting spirit. It’s an ability in his repertoire just like his Kamehameha; he is built to fight. When we get down to it, Superman is no fighter, and despite being significantly (but not overwhelmingly) statistically superior on paper in this hypothetical scenario which I propose, when it comes down to really fighting, there is no way he can match his flawless combat skill and spirit and he would be overcome.”
Goku would win of course he can turn super saiyan 12 if he wanted and super man would be dead with one spirt bomb
goku would win
kakarot would win he sure did beat the heck out of me
superman can not beat me he have no chance but i will try my best to kill this enemy get ready superman
they need to make a movie about this and make goku win
@Hasio: I haven’t proven anything, I’ve only presented an argument just as Paragon has and I await his rebuttal, if he can come up with one. Thanks anyway though.
^ I hate ignorant arguments. Superman has proven to be susceptible to attacks non-Kryptonite/Sun related.
Goku could die a million times and it doesn’t mean that he’s weaker for it. It just goes to show how powerful his foes are. Stop presenting your arguments in the form of random facts.
Get science right. Our sun doesn’t go supernova. If you can’t argue fictionally or scientifically, I suggest to stand back and let the big boys play.
——————————————————————————————————————
goku will beat superman black butt because he’s my bf
The bulk of my post was directed toward shredding Oscar Patridge’s post, btw, just to clarify.
BearerOfBadNews sorry to have used random facts but I only fill in what I feel was not picked up by others not you but others. I do know that just cause superman has died more does not mean that goku is any better just getting the facts out there some guy said goku died more than superman when it was superman that has died more.
I. Physical Strength
LOL. It turns out, I was actually even giving Goku too much credit. His base form caps out at less than 10 tons.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7721/360808.gif
So yeah, base Goku struggles with 10 tons while with Superman, you get overpowered crap like this:
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/249/power01.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5451/power02.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7999/power03.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9161/power04.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/553/power05.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1582/power06z.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5066/power07.jpg
Basically, Superman can move an estimate of 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons while Goku can’t lift 10 tons at base strength. So unless you’re implying that between base form and SSJ3, Goku gets a 658,000,000,000,000,000,000x multiplier, then you’d have to agree, Superman is CLEARLY Goku’s superior in physical strength.
And also, wiki is not a source. Fact is that no one in DBZ ever proved themselves as physical planet busters. All attempts to destroy a planet was through ki attacks because again, ki attacks are far more powerful than their own physical strength. And even then, they have to charge it up. (I mean, just use your common sense. It’s pretty stupid that Cell would have to charge up a Kamehameha to destroy the Earth if he could’ve just easily punched it.)
Note also that all physical fights in DBZ stay in one planet. Superman’s toughest physical fights in DC are fought across the galaxy. I mean, here, he punches Wonder Woman from the sun back to Earth:
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/aloner1/S1.jpg
And did you read what I wrote? Planet busting is no problem because Superman has no problem surviving planets exploding in his face:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1550/durability01.jpg
And dimension ripping? Yeah. Not a problem either. Never heard of Superboy Prime?
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/81560-186971-superboy-prime_super.png
The guy’s punches can punch through dimensions too. And Superman went toe to toe with him.
II. Speed
Goku’s fast enough that he can cover the same distance if it’s short at the same rate as using IT. That’s why IT in short distances is a moot point. But Superman is indeed faster. You didn’t really read my post did you? Go back and read the section on their speed. I even posted sources.
III. Superman can survive in space
“And I noticed you mention Superman keeping his distance would help him because he could use the environment to his advantage. I detest such arguments as they don’t prove the character is superior, just that he is circumstancially superior. As I always propose when debating about character battles, I think the battle should be thought of as occurring in a place in which there is absolutely no outside interference of any kind, nothing which can benefit nor impede the characters but with a type of environment which allows both fighters to survive.”
^ Then you’re trying to paint a BS scenario. Go through the scans I posted. A common tactic for Superman is to fly his enemies out into space where he can go all out. To limit that is to limit the character unnecessarily. It’s unfair to Goku because he can’t survive in space? All you’re saying is that you have to give Superman a handicap to give Goku a chance. Superman can and usually does fight in space, which is a big problem for Goku because he can’t survive in space. Deal with it.
IV. Fighting Skills
Fighting skills is pointless when the gap in power is too big for it to matter. And as I showed earlier, Superman is superior to Goku in strength.
LOL. Posted one scan by mistake:
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5066/power07.jpg
^ That one is an outdated incarnation of the character. He’s become far stronger than when he was first conceived.
Paragon, the strength you’re citing for Goku’s Base Form is what seems to be right after the Cell Saga. There is, I believe, a SEVEN YEAR gap in time between that time and when he is brought back to Earth for the World Martial Arts Tournament. Obviously you don’t know anything about Goku, because even small and seemingly insignificant amounts of time lead to astronomical increases in strength. We cannot speculate just how much physical strength he had acquired in that time, but suffice to say, his training had granted him two additional forms of Super Saiyan. I trust you know just how difficult it was for everyone in DBZ to acquire Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, and Perfect-State Super Saiyan, so try to understand what it means for him to master two additional forms of Super Saiyan (being the only non-Fusion DBZ character to attain the form).
And don’t think that I am going by what you think. I consider DBGT to be canon, as do many, if not most people. Goku by the end of “A Hero’s Legacy” in his Base Form cannot
even be compared to himself as his Base Form just after the Cell Saga.
DBZ characters do not need to prove anything through action. DBZ characters are physical planet busters, as is stated which is accepted as fact. Much of many forms of media, especially literature, utilize a little thing called “inference.” Dictionary Definition of the word Infer: “To draw a conclusion, as by reasoning.” From what we see in DBZ and DBGT, we may figure out someone’s power WITHOUT seeing it. If you argue this, you are foregoing logic and I will hence forth disengage with you in both debate and conversation since I will infer that you are purposely being obtuse.
And no, DBZ characters do not require a charge for their Ki attacks. It is simply that generally the longer one charges an attack, the more powerful it becomes. Some characters take longer to gather energy, especially early during the series. Characters such as Kid Buu are capable of generating planet busting attacks instantaneously by end of DBZ, as compared to the minutes it took Piccolo to charge his Special Beam Cannon against Raditz.
So a fight isn’t waged across a galaxy, so what? They can’t have someone fly across the galaxy every time they get hit. It’s like wondering why Goku can fly to fight Frieza just before he is about to kill Vegeta in seconds, but later in the series it takes minutes of screen time to cover a similar distance. It’s an artistic and story based decision independent of fact for these things to occur. You seem to have trouble grasping these types of ideas. I bet you’re an Atheist because you can’t see God, so therefore he must not exist, much like why Goku can’t physically destroy a planet, just because you’ve never seen it.
What was that about Superman and an exploding planet (rhetorical question, Paragon; don’t consider)? A Planet blowing up in your face is different than a blast capable of destroying a planet millions times over in your face. Not even similar at all on any level, don’t get them confused.
goku strong he hit with a pow that rips earth with pow pow. goku like the pow thats why he do it…… superman pow away
i want to come out to every one i am gay
cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock
Apparently my friend, who is bereft of intelligence, decided it would amuse his simple wits to type in a grammatically retarded fashion and make derogatory, fascist statement in my name. I apologize for his actions, for he knows not what he does.
I shall resume my current argument soon… -_-
On the subject of Speed, do enlighten me as to how Superman is faster than Goku, seeing as Goku has the capability to utilize Instant Transmission during fights. Your scans show Superman’s speed but don’t depict how he is faster, because as far as I understand, there is no time passed between usage and arrival at his destination. Explain this to me, please.
I won’t deal with the fact that Superman likes to fight in space. That’s his problem. For a battle to occur, it must also occur somewhere, and preferably somewhere fair. Where this battle happens will impact the fight and give an advantage to one fighter or the other. You’re probably assuming it just takes place on Earth somewhere, nice and close to a yellow sun too. Who’s to say this battle should occur on Earth at all? And just because Goku probably can’t last long in space doesn’t mean much to me, I just always think a fight should be thought of as occuring somewhere that doesn’t have outside influences. What if Goku were invincible on Mars? Should I say the battle takes place on Mars?
Go ahead and have space defeat Goku if you want, I bet that’s fun, but when it comes down to the warriors themselves, Goku is superior.
Oh, and I like how you covered Planet Busting and Dimension Ripping, but conveniently left out a mention of Universe Breaking. Goku is capable of destroying the universe, this much you must deal with and I want to know how you plan to do it.
BearerOfBadNews I do not know if you seen my post saying sorry to you but please do look higher up to find it next. I hope you do not mind me saying nice job so far on your argument I have a strong feeling you will win this I hope I did not jinks it. Please keep up the good work and I see you also have a great mastery over the english language thats a good plus if you ask me but please keep it up.
Hasio, don’t worry. You do not have anything to apologize for, and thank you for the compliments.
“Paragon, the strength you’re citing for Goku’s Base Form is what seems to be right after the Cell Saga. There is, I believe, a SEVEN YEAR gap in time between that time and when he is brought back to Earth for the World Martial Arts Tournament. Obviously you don’t know anything about Goku, because even small and seemingly insignificant amounts of time lead to astronomical increases in strength. We cannot speculate just how much physical strength he had acquired in that time, but suffice to say, his training had granted him two additional forms of Super Saiyan.”
^ Again, 10 tons to anywhere near 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons? Pfft. How about this. I’m the only one who is backing up his arguments with actual proof via scans. Prove to me that Goku’s physical strength is enough to lift 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons. You don’t have to post the actual page of the manga. You can tell me which volume it is and I’ll look at it myself. (It’s funny because you guys keep going “lol you don’t know much about Goku” when I’m almost sure now that I know more than you guys. I’m a big fan. I even have all the games Call me a Superman fanboy all you want, I actually like DBZ MUCH better than DC.)
“And don’t think that I am going by what you think. I consider DBGT to be canon, as do many, if not most people. Goku by the end of “A Hero’s Legacy” in his Base Form cannot
even be compared to himself as his Base Form just after the Cell Saga. ”
^ LMAO! People don’t get to decide what is and isn’t canon. I’m not gonna debate without anyone who doesn’t have the wits to realize that. The only thing that is part of Toriyama’s DBZ canon are those that were created by Toriyama. The animation (including GT) is entirely Toei. So, no.
“DBZ characters do not need to prove anything through action. DBZ characters are physical planet busters, as is stated which is accepted as fact.”
^ Proof. NAO. Where is this “stated”?
“Much of many forms of media, especially literature, utilize a little thing called “inference.” Dictionary Definition of the word Infer: “To draw a conclusion, as by reasoning.” From what we see in DBZ and DBGT, we may figure out someone’s power WITHOUT seeing it. If you argue this, you are foregoing logic and I will hence forth disengage with you in both debate and conversation since I will infer that you are purposely being obtuse.”
lol so from where do you infer that Goku can destroy a planet physically when all efforts to do this is in DBZ is through ki attacks?
“So a fight isn’t waged across a galaxy, so what? They can’t have someone fly across the galaxy every time they get hit. It’s like wondering why Goku can fly to fight Frieza just before he is about to kill Vegeta in seconds, but later in the series it takes minutes of screen time to cover a similar distance. It’s an artistic and story based decision independent of fact for these things to occur. You seem to have trouble grasping these types of ideas. I bet you’re an Atheist because you can’t see God, so therefore he must not exist, much like why Goku can’t physically destroy a planet, just because you’ve never seen it.”
^ LMAO! What you have trouble grasping is facts and that we don’t use “artistic and story based decision” to explain how physics work within a fictional world. It has to make sense within its own world. Freeza didn’t go, “Hey, make sure you don’t punch me too far. I want the fight to look aesthetically pleasing. Regardless of Toriyama’s reason, when someone is punched in DBZ, they don’t generate as much force as they do in DC. Also, the main reason they can’t just fly across the galaxy is because Goku can’t breathe in space. A real DBZ fan would know that.
“What was that about Superman and an exploding planet (rhetorical question, Paragon; don’t consider)? A Planet blowing up in your face is different than a blast capable of destroying a planet millions times over in your face. Not even similar at all on any level, don’t get them confused.
goku strong he hit with a pow that rips earth with pow pow. goku like the pow thats why he do it…… superman pow away”
^ Way to miss the point. The point is that Superman can tank those kinds of things. Not satisfied with that? Fine. See the earlier scan to see that Superman can fly through the red sun (which also drains away his energy) unharmed. But again, that’s REALLY beside the point since Superman is hypothetically fast enough to dodge ki attacks. See my earlier argument why.
“On the subject of Speed, do enlighten me as to how Superman is faster than Goku, seeing as Goku has the capability to utilize Instant Transmission during fights. Your scans show Superman’s speed but don’t depict how he is faster, because as far as I understand, there is no time passed between usage and arrival at his destination. Explain this to me, please.”
^ Quit BSing. You didn’t really view my scans or else you’d know that one of them clocks Superman from Earth to Saturn. One clocks Gotenks around the world. So yeah, it does depict the time. And again, IT is pointless in short distances. The point of IT is covering huge distances in a short amount of time. In a short distance, Goku’s fast enough to cover the distance that quick. It’s like using a remote control to turn on a TV that’s one foot away from you. It’s pointless since you can switch it on yourself.
“I won’t deal with the fact that Superman likes to fight in space. That’s his problem. For a battle to occur, it must also occur somewhere, and preferably somewhere fair. Where this battle happens will impact the fight and give an advantage to one fighter or the other.”
^ I’m with you on starting it on fair grounds. Never argued that. But after it does start, you can’t control it anymore or else it limits the characters unnecessarily. Even if it starts on Earth or some other planet, Superman will move the fight to space. To say he can’t because he has to keep it “fair” is laughable.
“Go ahead and have space defeat Goku if you want, I bet that’s fun, but when it comes down to the warriors themselves, Goku is superior.”
Except I’m the only one who’s actually posted my sources and all of them say it’s wrong.
“Oh, and I like how you covered Planet Busting and Dimension Ripping, but conveniently left out a mention of Universe Breaking. Goku is capable of destroying the universe, this much you must deal with and I want to know how you plan to do it.”
“Conveniently left it out”? LMAO. See, I posted an earlier scan of the guy that he was fighting accidentally destroying a galaxy with his sneeze. (I didn’t post that that same guy was capable of punching through dimensions though, which is why I posted that.) It was redundant to prove that Superman is capable of taking on galaxy-busters because it was already STRONGLY implied. My fault for thinking you were capable of figuring that out yourself.
Damn BearerOfBadNews and Paragon watching you 2 go at it is better than TV I can’t wait to see what goes on next. I hope you have something to come back with BearerOfBadNews and please don’t give up so easy. A battle is only over when one warrior dies, gives, or refuses to fight back or in this case comment back.
^ Hardly anybody wins internet arguments. The only way to win is to persuade people onto your side and hardly anybody does that. Usually, people just lose interest in the argument and never come back. Even if someone decides to leave though, it doesn’t mean that the other side won. I won’t say that I won against Matchstckgmr just because he left. It’s not a contest of endurance.
[And it's dumb to say that I shouldn't reply to Matchstckgmr because (1) people can type in whatever name they want (I even state that I wasn't sure if it was him that typed that); (2) people are free to come back; and (3) I'm free to post it.]
Regardless of who wins arguments though, there is a proper way to do this and it’s to present your argument and then use actual facts drawn from the original source material to support it. I’m the only one who’s been doing that so far. I’d really appreciate it if you guys started citing your sources and not just saying, “Goku can lift more than 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons because I think he can.”
Also, I’m not sure why my reply was deleted, but when did Superman die more than once? And no, do not use the cartoons or movies. Those are non-canon. Only from the original source material: the comics. For the record, AFAIK Superman died once and Goku died twice. But at least Hasio’s right about one thing: how many times they lost or died isn’t an indicator of who would win against the other, so it’s really irrelevant. I’m just asking because I’m curious. I actually don’t read Superman that much. (Nearly all of this, I found through research.)
Also, to shorten the argument, when has anybody in DBZ done anything close to being this impressive:
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/553/power05.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1582/power06z.jpg
There’s never anytime when a character sneezes and destroys a galaxy. NEVER. Face it. DC characters were written to be overpowered. For the longest time, they were considered crappy for that reason. There was never really any credible threat. Once, Superman was so OP that he overheard two characters conspiring across the universe, waited for Lois to blink, flew over there, beat them up, and flew back before she opened her eyes again. I mean, it’s so ridiculously overpowered that it’s pathetic. The stories sucked.
I like DBZ much better because the characters, while being powerful, have their limits. The story is better that way. It’s why I like it. But it’s also why I have to say that they’d lose against certain DC characters. (And DC isn’t the only place that has characters that can beat them. There’s Fei from Xenogears, TC Ultimecia from Final Fantasy, and from what I hear nearly the entire Darkstalkers cast are stronger than DBZ. They’re far from being the strongest fictional characters out there. There are other characters that can beat them.)
Superman’s just stronger, and I’m saying that it’s not necessarily a good thing on Superman’s part.
Well I can tell you I am not and I say again not matchstckgmr I think I typed his display name up right I am not going to look to see if I did. Next I do not know where I have seen this but I know superman has died 3 times in the comic books I just can’t find the picture for it but I know he has but thats besides the point we all agree that just cause one died more than the other does not mean one is stronger than the other. Also just cause there is no visual or writen record of goku being able too lift just as much close to or more than superman does not mean he is not able to. As BearerOfBadNews said and I quote
“DBZ characters do not need to prove anything through action. DBZ characters are physical planet busters, as is stated which is accepted as fact. Much of many forms of media, especially literature, utilize a little thing called “inference.” Dictionary Definition of the word Infer: “To draw a conclusion, as by reasoning.” From what we see in DBZ and DBGT, we may figure out someone’s power WITHOUT seeing it. If you argue this, you are foregoing logic and I will hence forth disengage with you in both debate and conversation since I will infer that you are purposely being obtuse.”
So we can just about come around to see how much stronger goku was after the cell saga. No where is it stated how much he can lift after it but I am sure its alot more. How much more I can not say but alot more is for sure. Is it more than Superman I can not say but like I said I am sure its alot more.
I am not trying to Argue with you Paragon but I am only showing what I see I listen to both sides here. To tell you the truth I belive goku has the better chance only cause I feel the arguement is going in his favor so far not cause people pop in and say stuff like. Goku wins hands down, or he can like go to super sayian 12 and beat supermans ass. Anyways you get my point. Like I said I am not this matchstckgmr guy and I will unlike him keep watching this cause I like this site and I really like watching 2 people go at each others wits. The only 2 people I like seeing so far do this is You(Paragon) and BearerOfBadNews please both of you keep up the good work and good luck to both of you.
“Well I can tell you I am not and I say again not matchstckgmr I think I typed his display name up right I am not going to look to see if I did. Next I do not know where I have seen this but I know superman has died 3 times in the comic books I just can’t find the picture for it but I know he has but thats besides the point we all agree that just cause one died more than the other does not mean one is stronger than the other. Also just cause there is no visual or writen record of goku being able too lift just as much close to or more than superman does not mean he is not able to. As BearerOfBadNews said and I quote”
I didn’t say you were matchstckgmr, just that I was replying in case that wasn’t him who typed that since anyone can type up whatever name they want.
Also, AFAIK he died once and that was against Doomsday. That’s all I know of. I’ve looked everywhere and that’s all I can find. The other times I see where he died weren’t Earth-One Superman (which includes the cartoons and movies). Unless you can prove otherwise, we’re going with one. Again, it’s not important anyway, but just stating should it ever turn out to be.
“So we can just about come around to see how much stronger goku was after the cell saga. No where is it stated how much he can lift after it but I am sure its alot more. How much more I can not say but alot more is for sure. Is it more than Superman I can not say but like I said I am sure its alot more.”
^ The problem with this is you can’t go by pure speculation in a hypothetical match. The whole thing is already speculation, so to base it on speculation as well will lead you nowhere. Go only by what you know for sure–that is, what you can back up with the original source material (Toriyama’s manga and DC’s comic books).
“I am not trying to Argue with you Paragon but I am only showing what I see I listen to both sides here. To tell you the truth I belive goku has the better chance only cause I feel the arguement is going in his favor so far not cause people pop in and say stuff like. Goku wins hands down, or he can like go to super sayian 12 and beat supermans ass. Anyways you get my point. Like I said I am not this matchstckgmr guy and I will unlike him keep watching this cause I like this site and I really like watching 2 people go at each others wits. The only 2 people I like seeing so far do this is You(Paragon) and BearerOfBadNews please both of you keep up the good work and good luck to both of you.”
^ You only say that the argument is going in Goku’s favor because you’re biased towards Goku. Like I said, I’m the only one who’s posted actual actual evidence and they all point towards the opposite.
Well I am not biased in fact I real life job that I do does not let me be biased I have to be on both sides. I am being truthful from my reading I see that goku seems to be winning only cause of what I read. But when its comes down to it we may never know who would win I mean. We can talk about this till the day we die and still will never know. I think the only way to do this would be for both who ever came up with superman and Akira Toyiama to come together and make a comic or a manga. That both of them work on and really sit there and talk it out as to who they think between the both of them think would win. I mean I think they sit there and tell the other one about there creations and both them would sit there and ether say ok well it will play out to ether goku being the winner or superman depending on what the come too.
I had to add this I looked up who made the very first superman he was made by 2 people also before I say who they were did you know that when they first made superman they wanted him to be evil not good. I found that funny anyways here are there names.
Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster
Here is wiki info on Joe Shuster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster
Here is wiki info on Jerry Siegel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel
enjoy the info.
I also like to add that both of them are dead. Also nether one of them came up with Superman Prime. That version of superman was made by 2 other guys and sense superman prime was not made by Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel that means its Non-canon based on how everybody seems to be using the word.
They were alive I think when Superman Prime was made but they did not make him he was made by
Elliot S. Maggin (writer)
Curt Swan (artist)
note nether of them are related to the real creators of superman.
Superman prime show up in DC Comics Presents #87 (November 1985)
wiki link to back up my info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_Prime
again enjoy the info.
Now sorry if I am wrong about the word Non-Canon but cause of how everybody seems to be using it. It leads me to belive thats how it should be used.
Sorry too add another thing but I have seen goku’s father bardock and vegeta breath in space too and the bardock thing is a tv specal not a movie thats what it is listed as. So if both bardock and vegeta do it why not goku?
“I also like to add that both of them are dead. Also nether one of them came up with Superman Prime. That version of superman was made by 2 other guys and sense superman prime was not made by Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel that means its Non-canon based on how everybody seems to be using the word.”
^ Wrong again. Canon is defined as the original works of an author. In cases like Superman, or various TV shows that have various writers working on it, “author” means the intellectual property owner, the IP owner in this case being DC.
In DBZ’s case, Toriyama is still the intellectual property owner, so only works made by him count towards the DB canon.
So no. Nice try though.
“I am being truthful from my reading I see that goku seems to be winning only cause of what I read. But when its comes down to it we may never know who would win I mean. We can talk about this till the day we die and still will never know. I think the only way to do this would be for both who ever came up with superman and Akira Toyiama to come together and make a comic or a manga”
^ Then you are obviously not qualified to judge. The pro-Goku hasn’t even posted a PROPER argument. lol How could they be winning? Their side consists mainly of posting Goku’s abilities without gauging it to Superman. People would post that Goku can blast a kamehameha and post no proof that Superman can’t withstand strong blasts like that. Or that Goku is stronger or faster without posting just how fast or how strong Superman is to properly compare against Goku.
If the pro-Goku side wants to post a proper argument, they have to post what they know about Superman to compare against Goku, not just post random stuff about Goku and say, “see, he’d win.” That’s not an argument at all.
And no, people can do hypothetical matches and determine the winner on their own through logic. DBZ fanboys just have a history of lacking in that department.
SSj4 Goku lifts up half of a huge city and then hardly lets loose a little sigh. He wasn’t even trying, and that wasn’t even at his furthest point of strength in the series. What else does he have to pick up? Does he need to also move a planet for you to consider him Superman’s equal in strength? I hope you understand the sheer impossibilities inherently associated with the very mechanics of a single being actually physically moving a planet, and I know DBZ isn’t exactly realistic, but you want proof that Goku is stronger by him LIFFFFING TEH UNIVERSE—NO, WAIT LIFFTINGG TEH MULTIVERSESS,!!1. Listen, DBZ characters prove their strength through battle, not bench pressing all of existence; what with Frieza’s ability to destroy a planet with his strength, and with Goku lifting cities, I don’t know how much further they can go to prove something to you. *shrugs*
No, you don’t know more about “DBZ” than me. Perhaps more about the original content by Akira Toriyama, the manga, but as a whole, I know as much, if not more than you. As for calling you a Superman fanboy, well, you act like one, but if you say you’re not, then you’re not.
“Toriyama’s DBZ canon”? Um, no, for one, he was involved with the creation of DBGT and seems to give it his blessing, creating artwork and such for releases. Two, I may be sinning here, but I don’t go by if Toriyama made it or not. In fact, that’s like not accepting Superman if whoever was the fag who originally wrote Superman isn’t writing him anymore (Thanks to Hasio, turns out there were two fags; Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel). If you wanna go that route, then we’ll exclude GT and anything not written by Joe and Jerry.
Furthermore on the issue of canonicity, what is or is not canon shouldn’t, and as far as I know, DOES NOT hinge on the original creator, nor even necessarily the original media. Furthermore, canon is hardly ever clear, and often goes by what is commonly accepted, or whatever fits into the canon without significant contradiction (you can’t say LOL WTF GOKOOS SOCKS R NUT BROWN WTF NOT CANON). SSj4 exists. I’m not forcing you to agree, and I’m not forcing you to debate me. As I said, if we exclude GT, we exclude much of Superman, or we keep arguing or whatever.
Superman has never been shown to tank the power of an attack the magnitude of what has been depicted in DBZ. You’re the one BSing now. And your picture you used as proof that Superman can dodge DBZ Ki attacks doesn’t work, the link is broken or something (as are several of your links, FYI).
DBZ seems to contradict itself on sometimes, unfortunately. Gotenks’ speed must be omitted as evidence of any kind as it is no more than an error, since Goku with a Power Level of 9,000 was capable of reaching the speed of Mach 17 (seventeen times the speed of sound) just after his training on King Kai’s Planet. And, I do believe, that was in his Base Form. Kaioken increases a users speed by up to, I believe, 20 times. Super Saiyan does this by 50 times. I’m not sure how much more by SSj2, SSj3, and SSj4. Plus, Goku’s speed increased in his Base Form after that point anyway. I am no math wizard over here, and I don’t have all of the numbers, but his speed is um, kind of fast-ish without even factoring in Instant Transmission.
Speaking of Instant Transmission, even if a T.V is one foot away from me, I still must travel the existing distance, and at any speed, some time is clocked, although it may be seemingly insignificant or unnecessary. The distance issue, and resulting time involved in crossing the distance, is irrelevant when factoring in Instant Transmission. There is no more convenient way to travel any distance.
I am glad that you are with me on fair grounds, but are you as concerned with it as I am? What if we were debating about something else and I said that the aliens from War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise would beat the aliens in a fair fight from Independence Day with Will Smith? Why should we just assume it takes place on Earth? That is extremely advantageous to the Independence Day aliens. And even if we take the fight somewhere that seems balanced at first, what if the fight moves somewhere advantageous to a particular party? I still wouldn’t see that as fair circumstances, so the battle, in my opinion, should happen somewhere that is constant in its unbiased, unwavering fairness. I always suggest a plane of existence, baron of anything but free space stretching for infinity, and an indestructible ground in some type of environment which inexplicably allows basic survival of all participants involved. Of course, everyone’s opinion of fair will be different, so whatever.
The sources you cite are arguable, and some are not working. All information I cite is easily obtainable, and since I am lazy, I may or may not relay to you a source (although, as I said, it is easily obtainable information. If I say 2+2=4, I hope I don’t need to cite a source for you).
Destroying a galaxy and punching holes through dimensions is not the same as destroying the entire universe. As in, everything. Goku could easily make this fight a tie if he had to by destroying the universe, Superman and himself included. My source in Goku’s staggering Power Level by the end of Z/GT. So you did leave it out, one way or another.
You’re not the only one arguing properly, that’s just self-bias. You do not need to utilize hard facts. Many people are prosecuted for murder based on circumstantial evidence, similar to how we are sometimes required in certain media to use inference to draw our conclusions, rather than hard, easily presentable facts. And just because you show someone is capable of doing something, it doesn’t mean that someone else isn’t capable of it or something similar just because they haven’t shown it. That’s not logical, and THAT is not the way to debate.
“Goku can lift more than 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons because I think he can?” No, I believe he can lift more than that because there’s no reason to think that he cannot. He’s lifted the heaviest things on Earth that anyone can think of, and didn’t break a sweat. Literally. Again, understand that this isn’t concrete proof that he could conceivably lift a planet (even if physics allowed such a thing) but there’s no reason to believe that he cannot, especially at his peak. It’s certainly not outside the realm of possibilities; in fact, it is quite probable and I don’t think he’d have any trouble doing it.
Hell, I could argue that Bruce Willis’ character from Unbreakable could beat Goku and Superman at the same time, if I so chose. On paper, it works. But I use logic, my common sense, to determine that he would not be able to, despite theoretical possibilities. He is shown never to take any type of damage from any type of incident thrown at him, from shaving his face, to car and train accidents. He is shown to lift an infinite amount of weight, despite it only being a few hundred pounds he was shown to lift. It can be argued that his strength adapts to whatever the situation calls for.
But do I think this means that he can withstand a Kamehameha? Not personally, but I can’t say he wouldn’t just because it’s never been shown. His only known weakness is deprivation of oxygen, and not just by water (despite it being the only shown method of weakness). One can infer that he would not survive in space, either.
…Do you understand what it is I am trying to relay to you? I hope so.
Anyway, as I believe I have previously stated, even if Superman turned out to be more powerful than Goku by way of some retarded writing, Goku could hold his own well enough, since his defense is shown to be superior/equal to Superman’s (I’m not even sure Superman could penetrate his Ki Shield), and his speed greater, as well as his fighting skill.
This isn’t a popularity contest or a power exhibition. It is a battle scenario, one in which I believe my argument proves Goku could win against Superman. The sneezing image is merely similar to what Kid Buu did, and the impossible seeming planet pulling mean little to me, especially since actual Physical Strength is but one aspect in a list of equally important combat factors in which I believe Goku is equal/superior. However, your story about Lois blinking and whatnot sounds much more impressive. Do show scans, if you can, so I may comment. Please.
And that’s your opinion alone, Paragon. I believe speculation in a speculative battle is perfectly placed, as long as there is some basis for said speculation, since that’s really all that we have to go off of on certain issues, more so for certain characters. Superman just throws everything out there with its bad storytelling, leaving little to the imagination, where as something like Final Fantasy will leave you wondering (I don’t wanna get into what’s better than what though, but obviously I think little of Superman, but I try to be as unbiased in my arguments as humanly possible.)
OKAY. This post is a bit long…forgive any errors, and missed/misconstrued/whatever points.
Oh, you told me to cite my source for when it is stated that a planet could be destroyed by strength alone, well here it is:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/20411/338652-bing_super.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.animevice.com/forums/general-discussion/1/battles-baseless-statements/322378/%3Fpage%3D4&usg=__5_AM-LVRawyZ0NcOqmP9DXJISZI=&h=689&w=454&sz=120&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=vfN2E0enA_uOvM:&tbnh=169&tbnw=111&ei=90I7TYnvNIv0tgOJ2qGMAw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpiccolo%2Bsay%2Bfrieza%2Bdestroy%2Bplanet%2Bstrength%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D960%26bih%3D613%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=734&vpy=52&dur=1339&hovh=276&hovw=181&tx=92&ty=296&oei=90I7TYnvNIv0tgOJ2qGMAw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0
Hope it works, the link is ripped directly from Google Images so yeah.
I posted right after you did. Well, I’ll add in your latest reply soon.
Paragon, I disagree with your definition of canon and would like to know from where this definition comes. Besides, everybody knows what is and is not canon is not always clear, otherwise there wouldn’t even be debate on the subject.
I’m not just saying a Kamehameha would kill Superman just because I think it would. I just haven’t seen him withstand anything of such magnitude. I heard he was nearly killed by the power of nuclear bombs (not the effects of it, but the power; I heard it tore the flesh from his bones leaving him nearly a skeleton).
Speaking of which, there’s a matter of inconsistency present in American comics which generally far exceeds that of manga. For example, why is it that artillery shells no longer pierce Superman? Sure, DBZ has its moments, but nothing so great as something like this. Is there a given reason or is it just, hey, let’s write him stronger now? I don’t know enough about Superman, so I’m asking here.
I did compare their speed just fine, stating that since Goku’s speed is unsurpassable that Superman is not faster. Sounds like I did a fine job, but maybe not. *shrugs*
When it comes to the matter of strength, it is far more speculative. Sorry I can’t provide to you a smoking gun. This doesn’t make your case, though.
I hope you’re not talking about me with all of this, because I never said “SEE HE’D WIN LOLOL.”
…Granted, many DBZ fans are lacking in logic. I did see someone say something about Goku going SSj12 if he wanted to and killing Superman in one shot, just because he said so. Then again, I seen similar stupidity from Superman fans. Meh.
Oh, I just remembered that Muhammad Ali, while close in Physical Strength to Superman, defeated him, knocking him out due to superiority in Fighting Skill. Furthermore, I heard that Antonino Rocca manhandled Superman, and on the cover, is shown throwing a dazed Superman out of the ring. I do not know if Antonino Rocca actually fought and overpowered Superman or not since I cannot find much information on the subject, but I’m also unsure of the legitimacy of the canon involved in those comics. Perhaps you could help shed some light on the subject, Paragon.
Assuming they are canon, it is obvious that Superman is nowhere near Goku’s level in Fighting Skill. Physical Strength or not, it seems Superman fights like a girl.
Ok I like to add something for both Paragon and BearerOfBadNews to look at In the TV specle Bardock father of goku its is shown that Bardock is able to breath in space and there is a seen in the normal DBZ anime in which we see Vegeta breathing in space too so with that being said why can’t goku do the same?
I like to add that nobody is qualified to judge anything like this cause this not something you can be qualified for see. What did I say that makes you think I am not qualified to judge this anyways if you don’t mind me asking?
That last message was for Paragon to add on.
I am unsure of the legitimacy of the canon contained within “Bardock: The Father of Goku.” As far as I am concerned, it is canon, but I do not know how it is regarded within the community.
As for Vegeta breathing in space, I do not know for a fact if that is anime filler or not.
Assuming both or either are canon, perhaps they knew of a way to breath in space, at least temporarily (perhaps they created a Ki Shield, and oxygen was contained within). Perhaps also, they are merely holding their breath, or something else entirely. Speculation.
If it is certain that neither of those instances turn out to be accepted as canon, then I’d say it is safe to assume that Goku does not have the ability to breathe within space, or at the very least, if he does, then he doesn’t know how to use it.
For the record, although generally considered non-canon, Broly saved his father and himself by creating a Ki Shield, keeping oxygen within. Despite its canonicity, the theory in and of iteself seems sound within the Dragon Ball Universe.
When all is said and done, we all make our own judgments, of which we are perfectly qualified to make. I suppose the closest thing to a winner we will determine here is whoever can provide an indestructible argument. Even then, it only means that nobody present can present such an argument.
I debate for fun anyway, and I believe that I am right, so I’m having a ball. =]
well so far I belive you are going to out wit Paragon BearerOfBadNews. But you know he keeps using these things on you he ether says where is your proof of this show me an image, its non-canon, or goku can’t breath in space. Stuff like that but I am sure you got this in the bag so to speak again good luck to you and. Please for the sake of all goku fans out there that can’t provide a good argument like you please keep it up BearerOfBadNews.
Time to clear up if Akira Toriyama did or did not have anything to do with Dragonball GT I have found info on this I will post what it says here plus the link for where I got the info enjoy.
“Canon Debate and Inconsistencies/MistakesEdit
Main article: Inconsistencies#Dragon_Ball_GT
Some do not consider GT canon due to the fact that this series was not directly written by Akira Toriyama. Additionally, GT was not originally produced as manga, like its predecessors Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Finally, GT contains several events which are inconsistent with its predecessor series.
Though Toriyama did not personally write GT, he did strictly oversee its production. This was the same process that was used during the production of the anime series Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Characters and events from GT have also been included in more recent Dragon Ball video games. With regards to inconsistencies, GT in fact has the least inconsistencies of all three anime series, making it difficult to cite the few that exist as reason for the series to be set aside as non-canon.
Toriyama seems to have positive feelings towards his works’ continuation, as he drew his version of Super Saiyan 4 Goku, exclusively for the GT Dragon Box.”
Link for info http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_GT
enjoy your reading.
“what with Frieza’s ability to destroy a planet with his strength, and with Goku lifting cities, I don’t know how much further they can go to prove something to you. *shrugs*”
^ Again, proof or GTFO.
And ugh. Did you not read my post defining what canon is? Seriously. Pick up a dictionary and find out. In Superman’s case, the intellectual property rights to that character are owned by DC. Therefore they get to set what is canon. It’s the same with Peter Pan. JM Barrie gave the copyright of Peter Pan to Great Ormond Street Hospital, therefore they get to decide what’s canon. TV shows have multiple writers working on them. Does that mean only the original writer gets to decide what’s canon and what’s not? Nope. Seriously, if you don’t even know how a canon works, you’re not even worth debating against. DBGT isn’t canon. The entire history of Earth-One Superman is. Deal with it.
And LMAO! “Canon doesn’t hinge upon the original creator or the media”? Oh okay. I had just now written a fanfic where Goku got hit by a pebble and died. It’s now canon that Goku is dead and was actually so weak that he can die from pebbles. Seriously, throw all logic out, why don’t you? I mean, you’re ignoring the VERY DEFINITION of canon. Seriously, get a dictionary and do some research. Canon is by definition all the original works of an author. In cases where there are multiple authors, it is defaulted to the intellectual property owner. I’m not gonna debate any further until you’re capable of realizing that. This part of the issue isn’t open for debate. If you’re going to ignore actual definitions of the word, then I can’t help you.
And I see the whole point of the TV analogy is lost on you. When you’re reaching for a remote to turn on a TV that’s only one foot away, the efficiency you get with the remote is lost unlike when you have to turn on a TV that’s fifty feet away. IT is the same principle.
Here’s the scan that proves Goku is hypothetically fast enough to dodge ki attacks. (http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7797/speed02.jpg) And in case it does hit, what are you talking about that I don’t have proof of Superman tanking anything like DBZ? Superboy Prime is himself a galaxy buster (see earlier scans) and Superman did take him on. QED.
And LMAO at your attempt to manipulate the scenario. How is that “fair” at all? Your definition of fair means catering to Goku’s weakness to the point of taking away one of Superman’s biggest advantage, essentially handicapping the character. In ANY hypothetical debates, the battle is fought where the characters aren’t denied any element that they normally have access to or else you’re giving another character a handicap and you’re putting them in a scenario where they don’t normally operate. THAT’s what’s fair. This isn’t up for debate either. This is how any hypothetical battle works. Ask ANYWHERE.
And lol your sources aren’t 2+2=4. It’s sad that you think it is. For example, find me proof that Freeza is a physical planet buster like you claim. And no, that’s not 2+2.
And OH EM GEE. You’re actually comparing this to a murder trial. You do realize that murder trials aren’t hypothetical scenarios? We’re dealing with pure speculation, so we need to have a grounded basis (read: hard facts). Yes, it’s acceptable to assume if certain things logically lead to that conclusion, but there is nothing that would logically lead us to them being physical planet busters. NOTHING. This isn’t up for debate either. That’s how it works. Otherwise, I’m free to spout anything I want and there’s really not much you can do to prove me wrong. Watch:
“There’s a page during the Buu saga where Goku admits to somebody (I forget who it was) that Cell and them were just bluffing when they said they were galaxy busters. In fact, the most they can do is destroy a planet. On the other hand, there’s an issue of Superman where he accidentally destroyed the entire universe by clapping and had to travel back in time to undo it.” Prove that wrong.
We go entirely by what we see. We never see any DBZ character destroying a planet physically or accidentally sneezing a galaxy away. Until I see proof or anything that LOGICALLY LEADS to that, then we’re not accepting it. THAT’s how a debate works.
And I love how you use the example of Unbreakable. What logically led you to believe that Bruce Willis wouldn’t have been able to lift an infinite amount of weight? “just because you show someone is capable of doing something, it doesn’t mean that someone else isn’t capable of it or something similar just because they haven’t shown it,” right? See how your own logic fails? The logic here is that you don’t see him doing it, ergo he can’t. Same with Goku moving a planet.
“No, I believe he can lift more than that because there’s no reason to think that he cannot.” <— LOL. Way to ignore my earlier scan where he couldn't lift 10 tons. First, let's start by proving that Goku can lift a city. Where's your scan of that?
(Didn't see that your post was done before seeing mine. I guess NOW I'll post with your other more recent post in consideration.)
LOL! You’d like to know where my definition of canon comes from? Grab a dictionary. Any dictionary. “My” definition isn’t up for debate. It’s what canon is. You wanna talk 2+2=4, this is it. Do your own damn research on this one, because this is too common sense. Look up issues regarding the Peter Pan canon, legalities of fanfiction, and the like. The canon is set by the author and/or the copyright owner. DEAL WITH IT.
As for Superman withstanding strong blasts and losing to Muhammad Ali and such, those were from a time when he was weaker, which is the “inconsistency” you’re talking about. (Which isn’t an “inconsistency” anymore.) The character’s been retconned to being weak to being extremely OP, to being weak again (which might’ve been where it happened), to being OP once more. It’s not exactly “inconsistency” since that inconsistency has been explained away to differing versions of the same character as being that character from a different universe. And they decided to get rid of all these contradictions by merging the multiverse together and “resetting” what’s canon over the years. As a result, the characters are changed through actual events in the story. (Look up Crisis on Infinite Earths and you’ll see what I mean.)
The scan of Superman tanking a planet exploding in his face is much more recent as is his fight with known galaxy-buster, Superboy Prime, so we go by that. For the record, Superboy Prime has displayed more power than a kamehameha ever has, so at the very least, you should assume that they are the same, that is, that Superman can take a kamehameha.
And yes, you not being able to provide facts to back up your case does make mine. It’s not speculative at all. I put up a scan that shows Goku unable to lift 10 tons. I then put up a scan of Superman moving over 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons (with barely a quarter of his strength back in his stronger incarnation). So there’s your facts that I laid out. Not speculation. Cold hard facts. You can’t disprove what I put up unless you put something else up that proves it otherwise.
Also, Bardock, Vegeta, and Broly breathing in space are all absent from the original source material and therefore not canon. (Well, Bardock was shown in something of a splash panel or something, but he wasn’t actually breathing in space.) Nothing in the original source material indicates that any Saiyan can breathe in space.
I have an idea just to make this all fair lets put goku and superman in a place that is a space full of nothingness. What is this place its in the world of DBZ but nobody gets an advantage there on ether side. Its is the hyperbolice time chanber lets use this as the battle field that way space can not be used on goku and superman can not play keep away. As any DBZ fan would know there is only one way in and one way out so lets already say that this door is now gone cause they both have entered the room and in getting ready for the fight superman and goku ended up breaking the door. So now nobody can leave now we all know that the futher one goes out in the chanber the more gravity there is. There is also no sun so superman can’t get charged up but there is nothing to help goku recharge ether. The way I see it this is a fair battle now sence its in a place nether side gets an advantage on.
I am also calling my friends in japan to see if they know of a way to send mail to Akira Toriyama not email but plan old mail. I am going to ask him if he might be willing to put GT in manga form and write his own version of the story line. So that means if he does which I really do not think he will but if he does. That would mean that if he puts in manga form and makes it his own story line GT would be canon then but only if he does that.
I have just look at the picture that paragon has saying that goku can only lift ten tons which is true but. What he seems to not think about is that this is before he has learned super sayian 2 or 3 and as goku has got stronger in his higher level forms his base form gets stronger so by the time he has learned super sayian 3 its safe to say he can lift more than 10 tons at base level.
Now I am not sure how much more goku can lift but any DBZ fan knows this to be fact that goku as he got stronger in super sayian his base form got stronger. So its safe to say that sence goku learned super sayian 2 and 3 he can lift more than 10 tons but its not known how much more but we know more than 10 is for sure.
but also I like to add that nobody even superman should be able to breath in space cause basied on real life there is no form of any breathing sorce in space it a huge vacume he should be ripped apart like anything else out there.
So in other words we can’t say anybody is breathing in space cause there is nothing to breath also superman can not talk in space no air to help him talk and nothing for sound to bounce off of there is so much wrong with superman’s world its not right on with real science but at least we know that people can be born with tails there is a man in india with one, we also know sprit power is real thanks to shoulin monks and they have used said sprit power to hit people from a distance but we can not see it, so nothing of superman can be basied on real life but most of dragonball z and dragonball cannot everything but a lot of things can be.
Sorry about my last post forget that is was typed my brother who hates any and all cartoons typed that he had to use my computer for something I guess looked in my history and found this. Anyways I am sorry for him posting such things so forget they were posted in the first place.
“I have an idea just to make this all fair lets put goku and superman in a place that is a space full of nothingness. What is this place its in the world of DBZ but nobody gets an advantage there on ether side. Its is the hyperbolice time chanber ….The way I see it this is a fair battle now sence its in a place nether side gets an advantage on.”
^ The fact is that you’re choosing a place where you’re deliberately giving Superman a handicap so that Goku can stand a very slim chance. It’s not a “fair” place at all. If you don’t see the problem with denying Superman the sun, you shouldn’t object to denying Goku air. A neutral battleground is one where they can go all out and where they aren’t denied elements that they ordinarily have access to.
“am also calling my friends in japan to see if they know of a way to send mail to Akira Toriyama not email but plan old mail. I am going to ask him if he might be willing to put GT in manga form and write his own version of the story line.”
LMAO! Toriyama wrote the story for Dragon Ball Online, and since it’s a direct continuation of DBZ that ignores all of DBGT, you can take that as Toriyama taking one big dump all over DBGT.
“I have just look at the picture that paragon has saying that goku can only lift ten tons which is true but. What he seems to not think about is that this is before he has learned super sayian 2 or 3 and as goku has got stronger in his higher level forms his base form gets stronger so by the time he has learned super sayian 3 its safe to say he can lift more than 10 tons at base level.”
^ Again, consider the large gap. He couldn’t have gotten more than a trillion times stronger. It’s illogical to think so.
“but also I like to add that nobody even superman should be able to breath in space cause basied on real life there is no form of any breathing sorce in space it a huge vacume he should be ripped apart like anything else out there.”
I never said Superman could breathe in space. AFAIK the current explanation is that he can hold his breath for a really really really really really long time. Like hours. I think maybe even days, which Goku was never shown as being capable of. Basically, Goku can’t survive in space. Period. Superman can long enough to beat Goku.
first off akira loved DBGT he him self said it. He gave it his blessing he even in a rare box set for DBGT drew his version of super sayian 4 if it was to appear in manga form. So Akira does not hate or crap on DBGT in fact the only reason Akira did DB online was just to make more money nothing more.
I also like to add that in DB online there is a majin race. I guess any DBZ fan would know this but Majin buu was made by magic there is no such thing as a majin race. There for plot hole in this being a real good continuation of DBZ. Cause that ingnore the facts that Majin Buu was one of a kind and made by magic.
You missed the point. DBO is a direct continuation of DBZ and ignores DBGT entirely. It wasn’t part of Toriyama’s canon before, but this puts the final nail in the coffin.
And you presume too much. You know absolutely nothing about the plot of DBO and you’re so quick to cry “plot hole” at something that Toriyama may have explained in the story? I mean, what if Buu had created the entire Majin race himself or something. Just because it’s not explained (and especially in this case where it may be explained eventually), it doesn’t mean it’s a plot hole. I really wish people would stop throwing that term around without knowing what it means.
But what you just said your self is that that the majin race is not explained. We can not make speculation in something like this I belive thats what you said youself Paragon. Untill it is explained all this is speculation so I belive we do not count DBO due to this loads of speculation can be made out of DBO.
Ugh. Are you completely devoid of common sense or something?
You’re taking what I said ENTIRELY out of context. I said you can’t base a hypothetical argument off speculation. Now you’re saying because we don’t have info on a very minor and insignificant detail regarding DBO, we can’t count it at all? Seriously. Think about what you’re saying there.
Regarding DBO, we know for a fact that Toriyama was greatly involved in supervising the story and art design. We know that DBO disregards DBGT. That’s all we need to know to prove that DBGT is not part of Toriyama’s canon.
What’s that? We don’t know why there’s a majin race? And you think that means we should ignore everything else we know about DBO? I seriously don’t know whether to laugh at the post or weep for the human race.
Hey I have you know I get payed to sit around on my ass all day and get payed why cause I have taken a government based test that says I am a genius. I also like to add weeping for the human race is looking down on your self as well. “He who knows nothing doubts nothing” old chinese saying. I hardly take part in such arguments but when I do I try my damn best to get my point out and out smart who ever I am up against be it you(Paragon) or somebody else. Dragon Ball GT began on Fuji TV at 7:30 p.m. on Wednesday, February 7, 1996 and DBO came out in Japan in 2008.
I like to note that most arguments do not use games to back up info being as its not part of the real story its not anime and its not manga. Canon or not DBO is not anime or manga its just a online video game. So it should not be counted I am not saying we should count DBGT but we should not count DBO for the fact its not anime or manga and. Most arguments do not use video games to back them up unless they people we are talking about only are on video games. EX Mario from well you know Mario games and Enzo from Assassins Creed 2 and BrotherHood. All that aside like I said we should not count it only based on what I said.
People like you real get on my bad side you know that Paragon. Somebody is going to get you in this argument when they do I hope you are willing to admit to being wrong. But for some reason Paragon I get you are one of them people that will never admit to being wrong no matter what even if god him self says you are wrong. We will see when that day comes and I feel it coming. I know it will but all we can do for now is keep putting post up back and forth. At least till this argument ends.
I like to add one more thing the Japanese do not like DBO. Its not successful there the japanese liked DBGT more than DBO. In fact most DB and DBZ fans both here in the US and in Japan like the idea of DBGT being the better continuation of DBZ. Akira himself liked DBGT more than DBO. The only reason Akira did not do the story line for DBGT was for fear it would not turn out well but it did.
He even did something for the rare box set for DBGT called The Dragon Box he did a picture of what Super Sayian 4 Goku look like in manga form. Akira only does DBO cause it made alot of money in Korea and still does but not loads in Japan. He only did it for more money he frowned on DBO. While DBGT is not canon or a perfect continuation of DBZ its clearly more popular than DBO and more widely accepted as the true continuation of DBZ. This facts from all around the net.
You, genius? LMAO! I’ve never laughed so hard my entire life.
Hey genius, have you never heard of this little thing called dictionary? It has definitions of words. Look up canon. See how it defines it as original works of an author? Yeah, nothing about excluding video games. Quit pulling stuff out your ass. Fact is that Toriyama personally supervised the story of DBO and DBGT was all Toei. So DBO is canon, like it or not.
And lol. You think it actually matters if Japanese people didn’t like DBO or why Toriyama actually made it? LMAO! Here’s an answer: NO, IT DOESN’T MATTER. FACT IS THAT TORIYAMA SUPERVISED THE STORY OF DBO AND IT CONTRADICTS DBGT. SINCE THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR WROTE IT HIMSELF, IT IS PART OF HIS CANON. Dispute that, genius.
And just to preemptively rid myself of repetitive idiotic arguments, regarding the issue of what’s canon in comic books–comic books get plenty of authors due to the nature of the medium, but each author’s run is not treated as its own canon. The same goes for television shows. Multiple writers work on different episodes of a show, but we don’t treat them as completely separate canons.
This is somewhat more of a legal issue because the “author” is regarded as whoever owns the copyright, or as I said earlier, the intellectual property owner. This one, you can research online yourself, genius.
First off I have never heard of the word Canon untill I started on this argument. Like it or not I am in fact a genius lets get the out of the way. Next count DBO if you want cause for one that wants to use it in this seems to not know alot about it. Like it or not Goku wins this not cause I say he does not cause people come on here and say goku does this and superman dies. He dies cause the facts say so here is something you clearly do not not think about.
Fact 1 most anime/manga do not use real things alot to define speed, strength, or power. Most american comic books do so there is no real way to say it goku can or can not move the earth for one. There are times in anime/manga when somebody says to quote piccolo “if he wanted to he could destroy the planet with his strength this is child’s play for Freeza”.
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/20411/338652-bing_super.jpg
There we have it showing that while we do not see Freeza being able to do it we have a person from the anime saying that he can do so. Sometimes we have to use little things like to show that somebody can do stuff like that.
This also means that we can use stuff like this to tell what another persons strength is with out seeing it. Get it Paragon if you do not agree with this then you your self sir and I quote ” are an idiot”. So if you do not agree then get out of this post and do not return under any other name. There is no room for people like you in this pro-superman or pro-goku side.
LMAO! THAT was your proof?
1. Strength is synonymous to power. Piccolo doesn’t have to mean “physical strength.” This isn’t proof at all since the statement is too vague.
2. In fact, you’re taking the sentence out of context. If you do consider what’s going on, you’d realize that Piccolo isn’t referring to physical strength. The context of the conversation is that they were considering Freeza’s last attack. Check out the pages before that. Freeza delivers a huge KI ATTACK. Not physical hit, but a ki attack. Krillin is impressed by it. That’s when Piccolo basically says that that was nothing if you consider that Freeza can destroy the planet with his power. It makes no sense to assume that Piccolo is talking about physical strength.
3. You want more proof that it’s not physical strength that they’re talking about? This creates a huge discrepancy with my earlier scan. You’d agree that Goku, at his base in the scan I posted with him lifting less than 10 tons is stronger than Freeza, yes? How is a person who can’t lift 10 tons capable of destroying the entire world through physical strength alone?
4. Why do people who clearly know nothing about Superman act so sure that he would lose to Goku when they know nothing about him?
Listen this is not my proof that goku could or will win. I am only showing that because DBZ and most other anime/manga do not use real life things like MPH or faster than a speeding what ever to say how strong one is. By the way when I was using that chapter of the manga I was showing that they use stuff like that to judge how strong one is or how fast one is. Next when I say power I mean there ki energy not how much they can lift or push. Lets get that out of the way.
Next much can be said about you when it comes to goku you don’t know alot about goku. I can tell you how ever that I am doing my damn best to learn anything I can about superman from his begins to modern day comic, cartoons, and movies animated and live action. I am sure that I will find one flaw in superman that would change this out come. Everybody has a weakness even the most powerful version of superman does he must. Goku has none listed but I am sure he does too.
Now goku will win this even if its the last thing I do by the way did you know that superman showed up in Dragonball as a short fat guy he had all superman’s powers but was clearly weaker than goku as a kid look him up. I belive this was Akria’s way of laughing at superman as a hero when goku is clearly a better hero.
“Listen this is not my proof that goku could or will win. I am only showing that because DBZ and most other anime/manga do not use real life things like MPH or faster than a speeding what ever to say how strong one is.”
^ It doesn’t mean we can’t gauge them at all. And there are parts that do gauge them. Like how base Goku can only lift 10 tons compared to how Superman can push/pull 6,580,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons.
“Next when I say power I mean there ki energy not how much they can lift or push. Lets get that out of the way.”
^ LOL. The argument earlier (I don’t know if it was you or BearerOfBadNews and I’m not gonna read through it to see since it doesn’t matter) was that that page supposedly proves that Freeza is a physical planet-buster. I’m just pointing out how false statement that was.
“Next much can be said about you when it comes to goku you don’t know alot about goku”
^ LOL Except you can’t say the same. I know a lot about DBZ.
“I can tell you how ever that I am doing my damn best to learn anything I can about superman from his begins to modern day comic, cartoons, and movies animated and live action. I am sure that I will find one flaw in superman that would change this out come. Everybody has a weakness even the most powerful version of superman does he must. Goku has none listed but I am sure he does too.”
Well, to help shorten your efforts, only the comics is considered canon. And yeah, Goku has weaknesses listed. I listed them all up there. You’re just ignoring them.
But anyway, since you apparently have yet to find any, why don’t you just agree for now that Goku is indeed weaker, hm?
“Now goku will win this even if its the last thing I do by the way did you know that superman showed up in Dragonball as a short fat guy he had all superman’s powers but was clearly weaker than goku as a kid look him up. I belive this was Akria’s way of laughing at superman as a hero when goku is clearly a better hero.”
^ LOL Wrong on so many levels.
One, Toriyama drew Superman in Dr. Slump not Dragonball.
Two, Dr. Slump parodies LOTS of things regarding Japanese and American culture, Superman just being one of them. Emphasize on the word “parody” in case you don’t get it.
Three, Toriyama himself stated in an interview that DBZ is an homage (not a parody, but an homage) to Superman, when he made Goku have practically the same origins as Superman. I don’t have a link to that interview, but you can google it yourself. Seems to me that you need to learn how to research your information anyway, “genius.”
So if we go by (failed) logic, since Goku is actually an “homage” to Superman, doesn’t that make him lower than Superman?
I like to add that the biggest Genius was looked at as a retard. Now I am going to trust that you know who that is so lets not talk about that. Next a funny short fat version of superman did show up in Dragonball here is the link eat that mister I think I know everything about anything http://blastr.com/pics/DragonballList2.jpg now sense I clearly can’t get you to think other wise. I am just going to leave it at this. I belive goku will win only cause the facts say so. Now you can keep saying that superman wins cause he can move this or his heat vision has done that or what ever. Bear in mind that I do research in other things besides this I am researching spirt energy. Most people belive that its just a state of mind and nothing more. I am working on a way to see it gauge it and how to use it for other things besides battle like the shoulin monks do.
Suppose Goku and Superman are both trapped by magic in an alternate dimension. The dimension contains breatheable air and a ground plane and its inhabitants are, by magical fiat, kept constantly satiated and unaging. Both Goku and Superman are informed by whatever godlike being transposed them that they will only be freed once one defeats (read, knocks out or kills) the other in an honest fight. More magic is used to read each combatant’s mind: if it turns out they are not fighting to their full capacity or otherwise trying to cheat, the scenario instantly resets. Any lasting harm caused by the fight up to and including death is magically repaired. Only a minute passes in the real world no matter how long the fight takes.
The dimension probably extends endlessly in all dimensions and has an earthlike ground plane which may or may not be indestructible down past a certain point.
Also late, but Superman’s ostensible ability to travel through time is not really relevant to the debate. Time travel isn’t one of Superman’s powers the same way that heat vision is – it’s just what Superman’s writing team thought the logical consequence of going incredibly fast was. If Goku were written in the Silver Age DC comics universe then he could travel through time just as easily as Superman, for the same reason that if Superman were to die in the Dragon Ball Z universe he would appear in heaven with a little halo floating over his head.
It’s also untrue to say that Superman has countless powers and devices. He actually has only a few discrete powers, and he does not walk around with a utility belt of superscience inventions. He’s theoretically capable of designing and building all manner of things, sure, but while he can do it infallibly and at incredible speed he can’t actually do it instantly. Indeed, since Superman’s speed certainly does not significantly outstrip Goku’s, there’s no real way that Superman could bring his ability to construct devices into bear, for the same reason that a mortal scientist confronted by a mortal martial artist can’t win the confrontation by sitting down at a workbench and fabricating a revolver from raw materials.
“I like to add that the biggest Genius was looked at as a retard. Now I am going to trust that you know who that is so lets not talk about that. Next a funny short fat version of superman did show up in Dragonball here is the link eat that mister I think I know everything about anything”
^ And did you not read my post? You know who that is next to Suppaman (not Superman, by the way)?
One, that’s Arale (with Gacchan). She’s from Toriyama’s Dr. Slump, not Dragonball (although she did make a cameo appearance). AFAIK that particular scene is from Dr. Slump, not Dragonball.
Two, Dr. Slump parodies LOTS of things regarding Japanese and American culture, Superman just being one of them. Emphasize on the word “parody” in case you don’t get it. It’s a parody of Superman named Suppaman, not Superman himself, in case you didn’t know that.
Three, that means, that in the end, this version of Superman is not canon anyway.
Four, Toriyama himself stated in an interview that DBZ is an homage (not a parody, but an homage) to Superman, when he made Goku have practically the same origins as Superman. I don’t have a link to that interview, but you can google it yourself. Seems to me that you need to learn how to research your information anyway, “genius.” So if we go by (failed) logic, since Goku is actually an “homage” to Superman, doesn’t that make him lower than Superman?
I am tired of this I should work on my research more than sit here and say if goku would win or not. Like it or not I am a genius like most things this is not worth my time or my effort. I make way to much money to take time out of my day to talk about something like this. So you paragon can talk about superman beating goku all day if you want and not get payed anything for it. So I say goku wins and you say superman wins. You show hard facts I show what I can when there is not much to show of goku win or lose. I am going to get all rights to goku one of these days and make him strong enough to win. No wait never mind what is the point of all of this. Buying the rights to goku thats a waist of money. Same goes for buying the rights to superman or any other comic book super hero or anime hero. I do know this there is some sort of fact that will show that superman loses I may not ever find it but some one will who I don’t know but some one. One thing you seem to forget is this a genius stands by his research no matter what.
^ Ah, the cry of the defeated.
“I do know this there is some sort of fact that will show that superman loses I may not ever find it but some one will who I don’t know but some one. One thing you seem to forget is this a genius stands by his research no matter what.”
^ So basically you’re saying, “I think Goku will win. I don’t have proof that he will win, but I will stand by it because I know proof exists somewhere out there even though I may never find it.” I think there’s a frame of that quote mounted on every fanboy’s office or something.
LOL @ buying the rights to Goku just to make sure he’d win. Fanboyism at its best.
You’re making me laugh so hard with this genius thing. Genius, you haven’t done that much research. I gave you evidence, you ignored it in lieu of your nonexistent evidence that you’re somehow sure that you’ll find someday. That’s not standing by your research. That’s just being a stubborn fanboy. You have nothing to debunk my argument, ergo my side is the victor.
Huzzah.
Paragon victor ha I laugh you are no victor for I have a life. You want proof of that here it is you only beat me in this only cause you have nothing better to do than sit here and show me your worthless research that superman wins. My bad hell I don’t even call this research it nothing but nerdlogy what do I mean is that you are clearly a nerd and if you don’t the roots of english logy means the study of. What does this mean its only stuff that nerds and care about. If you think I am a genius ok if not ok it does not make one little difference to me. To add 2 more things if you still belive you have what you call victory its an empty victory next do not think that a nerd or a geek or a dork are the same thing as a genius. A Genius uses his mind for more important things to better others lives and make things easy and to move forward. The other 3 are like you use there mind for crap that does not matter enjoy the empty victory and this empty victory does not make you smarter than me it only show you have nothing better to do than use your worthless knowledge of crap. To make you feel better than others when you clearly are not. As the old saying goes the pin is mightier than the sword or in this case the keyboard is mightier than the sword. I can say this in 44 different languages never underestimate me.
I also like to add that unlike most Genius’s of the world. I am trained in almost all styles of the asian martal arts. So not only can I kick you ass in a mental way I can do it also in a physical way. Now I am not saying this to make you think I am going to track you down or something what be the point of it. I gain nothing by doing so kicking your ass give me nothing hell it would not make me happy but it would not make me sad ether it be like breathing air to me just another everyday thing. I bet your not even close to my age now I can ask how old you are but I am willing to bet you will lie to me on that for all I know you maybe at best 13 to maybe 15 or 16 the way you type makes me think so. If you are older than me than it tells me you waisted your life thats for sure. If your younger than me it tells me you have no life but you can change. You don’t need to listen to me I lost a fight that again does not matter weather I win or not. Well have a nice well I can’t say life cause you don’t have one.
Oh oh oh! And there it is, folks. The “I have a life” card! In case you folks aren’t familiar with it, it’s the card that losers in an argument play to try to squirm out of an argument by trying to make themselves look like a better person through the presumptuous assertion that anyone who spends some time debating on the internet must not have a life, not only failing to realize the fact that they too have engaged in that exact similar behavior, but that they have absolutely no idea how much time the other person invests in other activities. No sir, forget all that, they win the argument because they “have a life,” and surely their opponent must not. I love it when people play this card.
Oh, and genius, “-ology” is the suffix for study of. Not “logy.” So it would actually be “nerdology,” not “nerdlogy.” (Except even that wouldn’t make sense. I mean, “the study of nerds?”) If you’re gonna insult somebody’s intelligence, make sure you don’t look like an idiot when you’re doing it, genius.
And lol at the “pin” being mightier than the sword. We all ought to be seamstresses then. And yeah, I’ll call your bluff and ask you to say it in 44 different languages. Or hell, you don’t have to do all 44. 15 would be fine.
And OH EM EFFIN GEE. I completely lost it when I saw your second post. First bragging about your intellect, then claiming you’re the only one that has a life, and NOW you’re trained in all styles of Asian martial arts?! (And you can beat me up with it? Oooh. Sooo scary. lol) You’re certainly pulling out all the stops with your bragging. LMAO. Next, you’ll be telling me that you get a new lady every night, drive a Ferrari, and have a giant Japanese mecha sitting in your garage.
Okay, listen here. I don’t see why you’d make a point about my age when you’re CLEARLY the one who’s under 16. Maybe even as young as 13. For one thing, you’re too immature when it comes to communicating online.
By that I mean that a mature person would know better than to brag needlessly about being a “genius,” having a life, being able to beat somebody up (over the internet lol), and being hung like a horse. (Here’s a little tip. The more you brag about things on the internet, the more likely people are to not believe your claims.) Really, all that is POINTLESS. ESPECIALLY on the internet where all you are to anybody is a username. Attach whatever traits you fantasize yourself as having, you will NEVER be more than a username.
Which is why you shouldn’t be taking all this this personally. I posted a solid argument and you couldn’t come up with anything decent to counter it. Don’t think less of yourself and feel the need to salvage your ego by claiming you have the brains of Einstein and the wushu skills of Jet Li. Just don’t. Because THAT’s what’s making you look pathetic really.
You lost the argument and you have nothing else to say regarding the argument? Then just go. How hard is that?
Okay ass hole thats it I am 20 years old I will be 21 feb 3 of this year. I am also married I have no kids. I drive a 1996 ford mustang. At times when I type fast I make a few spelling errors and do not fix them. Belive what you will Paragon you have no idea who I am I have met people like you in real life and I have beaten every one of them in a physical fight. I would never say I am as smart as Einstein I respect the man far to much and next I would never compare myself to Jet Li I like Bruse Lee more but thats besides the point I am not as good as Bruse Lee ether or Jet Li I maybe close to there skill level how ever. Next I have never been one to talk about my penis over the net or in person. I feel that makes one less of a man. I don’t care if people belive me or not ether way its true like it or not. I will not take on your challenge to say what I said in 44 other ways. Why? Cause odds are knowing you. You will say you just used google or something like that its not worth it. By the way walk up to me and say what you did to my face and that will be the last thing you will want to say to me I don’t take stuff like that laying down. The thing that really set me off is how you comment you are a cocky person that needs a good ass kicking that is a for sure deal. I wish I could be the one to give said ass kicking to you but odds are you are younger than me and even if you do need this ass kicking its not worth me doing it and going to jail over it. I am in no way trying to get out of this I would like to stay in this but I have no way too cause yes I have lost a battle that had no meaning to start with I was only looking for a way to beat that cocky way out of you. But I failed at that too as it stands. If you comment one more time in a way thats sound cocky then so help me god. Man I am pissed and I should not be this is like a 5 year old who thinks they know everything trying to make him self look better than me. You know what I am being the bigger man and ending this I will now leave and no longer look at what you type so say what you wish but I will not come back to see well then again maybe I will but I will not reply. I will let you feel better than me what ever makes you feel like your the bigger man. You got what you want enjoy.
PS this was my first internet argument and it is now my last cause I can not find somebody on the net that knows how to talk in a nice way. To many people fight on these thing like 2 geeks fighting over a rare card of some sort. I knew this was a waist of my time but no I had to try this I had to sit here and talk about my thoughts on why I belive goku would win and not superman. I better not waist my time anymore Paragon enjoy I will let you do what ever you are going to do. So call me a name or make threats if you wish but this is not something I should be putting my time into I only tried this to see if I would like it or atleast do good at it but nope thats not the case. This was all a waist of time my time of all things I had to waist it had to be my time I will not get it back. Well never more I say I will move on I need to block this site after you reply to my post I will read it and then if I do not like it o well but I will block this site so not to reply to such things good day paragon.
So you’ve met other people like me irl and beat them up? Oh noes. lol @ Mister Internet Tough Guy
I was gonna reply a bit more, but man, you sure do like to get defensive and talk about yourself a lot, and this has gotten way off-topic. So I’ll just sum it up.
lol u mad?
I don’t know if it mattered to anyone, but sorry that I haven’t posted in about a week or so. I’ve been rather lazy. Anyway…
On the subject of Canon:
Paragon, I present the Dictionary Definition of the word, “Canon.” Here it is:
“can·on1
[kan-uhn]
–noun
1.
an ecclesiastical rule or law enacted by a council or other competent authority and, in the Roman Catholic Church, approved by the pope.
2.
the body of ecclesiastical law.
3.
the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art: the neoclassical canon.
4.
a fundamental principle or general rule: the canons of good behavior.
5.
a standard; criterion: the canons of taste.
6.
the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
7.
any officially recognized set of sacred books.
8.
any comprehensive list of books within a field.
9.
the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic: There are 37 plays in the Shakespeare canon. Compare apocrypha ( def. 3 ) .
10.
a catalog or list, as of the saints acknowledged by the Church.
11.
Liturgy . the part of the mass between the Sanctus and the Communion.
12.
Eastern Church . a liturgical sequence sung at matins, usually consisting of nine odes arranged in a fixed pattern.
13.
Music . consistent, note-for-note imitation of one melodic line by another, in which the second line starts after the first.
14.
Printing . a 48-point type.”
Now, I don’t think that 1-5 have any relation to our issue. I also don’t think that 6 can be twisted to fit either of our arguments. Now 7, that’s pretty close to what we’re looking for. Albeit not sacred, the point of OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED SET OF BOOKS does come pretty close to helping clarify our issue, although I don’t think that I necessarily agree with the limiting term “books.” I think that any officially recognized form of entertainment (games, books, ect.) that can fit into canon properly (without significant inconsistencies) in also considered canon. GT doesn’t clash with DBZ, and it IS officially recognized and did have Toriyama’s supervision and approval. Sounds like canon to me. Let’s keep going.
And number 9? “Works of an author” is mentioned. Here’s the site’s first listing for the word, “Works.” Here: “Exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something; labor; toil.”
Toriyama exerted himself in an effort directed to the production of Dragon Ball GT. He did not toil in vain, as his goal was accomplished. Sounds like the works of someone to me; although technically not the author, Toriyama was involved with GT during and after its production. And GT is an authentic work…
Well, 11 doesn’t fit. Actually, neither do the rest, right up to 14.
So, what about Superman? I didn’t read anything about “intellectual property owners” or anything of the like you presented in your defense of Superman’s comicbook canon in the definition, so it looks like according to the Dictionary, a lot of Superman’s comics aren’t canon. Most, in fact. Unless you’d like to point out to me where I’m misunderstanding something, from my point of view, GT is still closer to canon than the vast majority of Superman is.
Both Hasio and I have presented our proof of Frieza’s ability to Physically destroy planets. You tried dismissing it with some petty and twisted argument about how “strength” is synonymous with “power” or whatever and trying to twist the context to your liking, but the fact is, neither “strength” or “power” are synonymous with “energy”, “chi”, or “ki.” So Piccolo was speaking of strength, obviously of a physical nature, and you know it. Everyone knew Vegeta was capable of destroying planets, so why would they point out that Frieza is capable of doing the same and be surprised and astounded, especially when they themselves harbor the power to destroy planets with energy? Strength isn’t energy, and Piccolo meant what he said: Frieza was capable of destroying the planet with his strength alone. It’s the general consensus on top of what I pointed out, check the Dragon Ball Wiki. Stop arguing a point you lost. If I decisively lose a point, I’ll take it in stride. I suggest you do the same.
Yeah, your whole television scenario was flipped on you so now you say it is lost on me, so cool, let’s drop that one.
So Superman dodges some garbage thrown at him by who appears to be Doomsday. Good for him. I don’t know how fast Ki attacks go, but Piccolo’s Special Beam Cannon was said to be faster than the speed of light during the Saiyan Saga. I don’t know how much faster the blasts are capable of going by the end of Z, or GT, but it’s pretty fast I’m sure. How fast is Doomsday’s blast going? You know what? Who cares. Teleport Kamehameha (A.K.A Instant Transmission Kamehameha, Point-Blank Kamehameha, ect.) doesn’t rely at all on the speed of the user and the Ki’s speed doesn’t matter much at that range. For one, Superman wouldn’t expect it, and two, he likely can’t dodge it every time. Even if he does escape the blast, Goku could control it to chase him and then use it again as he outruns the blast. As it doesn’t seem likely to fail in the numerous ways it could be used, if one did hit, I’m thinking it would be over. All the evidence you’ve shown doesn’t point to him withstanding a blast from SSj4 Goku.
Here you are talking about Superboy-Prime being a Galaxy Buster, but that’s not the same as complete and total annihilation of the entire Universe itself (and besides, I don’t recall your evidence of Superboy-Prime destroying a galaxy, I could be wrong though, maybe you did). Universe Breaking is in a class of its own, and I want you to show me that Superman can do it. Even then, if he is capable of producing such power, it doesn’t mean he can withstand it as well, so I’ll need you to tell me why you think he can take it. DBZ characters can give and take.
Just because we’re taking away Superman’s advantage doesn’t mean we’re making it unfair. Nobody should have an advantage at all. We simply must place them somewhere that doesn’t cater to either character in any way, shape, or form. The characters must be on an even playing field at all times; no advantage, and no disadvantage. I mean, you said it your self:
“Your definition of fair means catering to Goku’s WEAKNESS to the point of taking away one of Superman’s biggest ADVANTAGE.”
We cannot have fair battle ever take place in scenarios like this. Superman’s ADVANTAGE becomes a WEAKNESS for Goku thanks to OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES. If Superman or Goku cannot win on their own, then they can’t win, period. No sun or space, no Spirit Bomb or Senzu Beans or ANYTHING of the like for EITHER character. Trust me, you don’t want Goku to have the ability to use his Universal Spirit Bomb, then dump his own energy into it, eat Senzu Beans, and repeat the process in the safety of Other Word/Hyperbolic Time Chamber until his attack is strong enough to destroy anyone capable of dying.
How about Instant Transmissioning to Namek and using the Namekian Dragon Balls, wishing for Earth’s Dragon Balls, Immortality, knowledge of his enemies weakness, and then an indestructable, Kryptonite Battle Suit, complete with Kryptonite sword and omniscience? Sound good to you? Or maybe someone else could think of something better. I’m sure Goku could. And he would use the Dragon Balls if he had to, hypothetically.
If this were Aqua Man versus Sandman, how can the battle ever be fair if it takes place on Earth at all? The Earth is comprised mostly of water, a horrible weakness of Sandman’s and a place in which Aqua Man thrives. UNFAIR. Take them somewhere WITHOUT water OR sand. This means Sandman loses his ability to utilize sand outside the amount that he normally contains, and Aqua Man cannot hide in water, and control creatures to combat and overwhelm Sandman.
You obviously do not understand the concept of fairness, Paragon. Maybe we should look up the definition. “Neither excellent nor poor; moderately or tolerably good: fair.”
You paint the unfair picture in Superman’s favor under the guise of fairness since he always has something backing him, giving him something, making him more than he really is. Superman is really a raging pussy under any circumstances which do not favor him. Goku is not, and you know this, and fear this. You fear fairness, a topic few tread upon in a debate of this type.
I am ignoring your scapegoat response to my example pertaining to a murder trial, and the proceeding nonsensical, dance-around-the-facts mumbo-jumbo about the Z Fighters bluffing or whatever. Grow up and debate with less sarcasm; it’s a veil for your growing fear is all.
No, Paragon. We do not go entirely by what we see. So sorry. That’s not how a debate works.
Either I poorly expressed my point concerning “Unbreakable” or you have misunderstood it. Technically, David Dunn can be argued as the most powerful fictional character, as his defense is absolute. However, that’s within his far more realistic universe and story structure. Galaxy Busting energy based techniques do not exist in his fiction, and therefore were not factored in. Although I have no proof, my common sense tells me he would not be able to survive…. you know what i give up you win superman is stronger
well played you win goku would lose
You’re being WAAAAAAY too technical. Do some research on copyright laws and what intellectual property means. Ask yourself why shows that have the DIFFERENT authors are still considered part of the same canon despite the fact that it goes against the definition you posted. Seriously, do more research on this matter. I was just being sarcastic when I said to simply look in a dictionary as it’s not that simple a matter.
If you don’t feel like researching, use common sense. Again, shows normally have different writers for each episode and yet it’s considered part of the same canon. Same goes for a comic book series. In cases like DBZ, you don’t even have a case to argue whether or not DBGT is canon because the original author has written a continuation of his series that completely disregards DBGT. It can’t fit into the same canon because it contradicts. Therefore it’s non-canon. It’s that simple.
And lol, my argument about the definition of strength isn’t “petty” at all. It’s nothing but the truth. STRENGTH IS SYNONYMOUS TO POWER. And I wasn’t twisting the context to my liking. LMAO! Read the volume. The context is as I said it. They were discussing the destructive capabilities of Freeza’s ki attacks. You have NOTHING to disprove that. If you really don’t want to argue points that you’ve lost, then _you_ shouldn’t be bringing this up. Fact is, there is NO evidence that Freeza (or anybody on DBZ for that matter) is a physical planet buster. All of a sudden you want to use “common sense” when you didn’t want to before. Again, using common sense, why did Cell, who was stronger than Freeza, decided to blow himself up instead instead of just punching the ground when he decided that he wanted to destroy the planet? Or Freeza and Buu for that matter. And how could base Goku, who can’t lift 10 tons, suddenly destroy the planet through physical strength alone? Seriously, you want to bring up using common sense? Apply it to those questions. There’s no physical planet busters on the show.
(And don’t bring up wikis into discussions. I can edit that myself and pass it off as general consensus. Wikis are not reliable sources.) And yes, the remote control analogy did go over your head. LOL How hard is it to understand? When you’re reaching for a remote to turn on a TV that’s only one foot away, the efficiency you get with the remote is lost unlike when you have to turn on a TV that’s fifty feet away. Instant Transmission is the same principle.
Also: “if one did hit, I’m thinking it would be over. All the evidence you’ve shown doesn’t point to him withstanding a blast from SSj4 Goku.” LOL. How destructive is Goku’s kamehameha in the first place. Is it more destructive than a red sun, which Superman can fly through despite the fact that it drains him of his powers? Fact is, you can’t even answer that question anyway, so why the certainty?
LMAO! Universe-breaking? Now you’re pulling huge chunks of crap out your ass. Since when did characters in DBZ become universe-busters. I’d ABSOLUTELY love to see you attempt to prove this. The biggest claim anyone’s boasted in DBZ was being able to destroy a solar system with a kamehameha and a solar system’s actually much smaller than a galaxy. PC Supes accidentally sneezed a galaxy away. Seriously, how can you even compare the level of power between the two?
“We cannot have fair battle ever take place in scenarios like this. Superman’s ADVANTAGE becomes a WEAKNESS for Goku thanks to OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES.”
Jeebus, what the hell are you even trying to say? Ignore “outside circumstance?” What the hell? We should ignore THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE as we know it? Okay, so by that logic, why give them air? A breathable atmosphere is actually filled with all those oxygen atoms, which would be outside circumstance. By your logic entirely, let’s not give them air, mmkay? If anything, the emptiness of space is actually closer to a neutral battleground because there’s nothing out there to be counted as outside circumstance. So using your logic entirely, it actually makes more sense to start the battle out in space. Wait… Goku’s not moving.
Also:
“Trust me, you don’t want Goku to have the ability to use his Universal Spirit Bomb, then dump his own energy into it, eat Senzu Beans, and repeat the process in the safety of Other Word/Hyperbolic Time Chamber until his attack is strong enough to destroy anyone capable of dying.”
^ HAHAHA. Yes, I actually would. The result of that would be Goku draining himself of his energy only to find out firsthand that the spirit bomb didn’t work on Superman because he isn’t evil.
“How about Instant Transmissioning to Namek and using the Namekian Dragon Balls, wishing for Earth’s Dragon Balls, Immortality, knowledge of his enemies weakness, and then an indestructable, Kryptonite Battle Suit, complete with Kryptonite sword and omniscience? Sound good to you? Or maybe someone else could think of something better. I’m sure Goku could. And he would use the Dragon Balls if he had to, hypothetically. ”
^ LMAO. Now you’re just being completely irrational. One, you should know by now that no character can wish for omniscience. No dragon can grant that. Two, yeah, the guy who would rather give the villain who wants to destroy everybody a senzu bean to start off fresh would wish for a battlesuit and sword that exploits his opponent’s weakness. LMAO. Don’t you realize just how desperately you’re grasping at straws here? Three, no, he would not “use the dragon balls if he had to.” He’s had to so many times. Did he ever use it that way? NEVER. So it’s only hypothetically true if you’re being illogical. The logical conclusion, however, is that no, he really won’t.
“If this were Aqua Man versus Sandman, how can the battle ever be fair if it takes place on Earth at all? The Earth is comprised mostly of water, a horrible weakness of Sandman’s and a place in which Aqua Man thrives. UNFAIR. Take them somewhere WITHOUT water OR sand. This means Sandman loses his ability to utilize sand outside the amount that he normally contains, and Aqua Man cannot hide in water, and control creatures to combat and overwhelm Sandman.”
^ LMAO! It’s clear that _you_ are the one who doesn’t quite understand the concept of fairness. It’s a hypothetical battle. You won’t know the actual answer if you start to deny the characters things that they would ordinarily have access to because then you’re creating a VERY specific scenario. A general scenario is far easier to have as a battleground because then you can account for situational tactics. We don’t just go arbitrarily removing elements that gives the characters any advantage. That’s not how you establish a neutral zone at all. A neutral zone is one that gives BOTH characters ALL the advantages that they could have.
Also: “You obviously do not understand the concept of fairness, Paragon. Maybe we should look up the definition. “Neither excellent nor poor; moderately or tolerably good: fair.””
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You do realize that words can have multiple meanings, right? You’re basing your entire argument on the wrong one. The definition of fair that you’re citing is the one you’d use to describe something mediocre, as in “My test result was only fair.” It doesn’t mean we should only be giving a mediocre battleground and calling it “fair.” LOL
“You paint the unfair picture in Superman’s favor under the guise of fairness since he always has something backing him, giving him something, making him more than he really is. Superman is really a raging pussy under any circumstances which do not favor him. Goku is not, and you know this, and fear this. You fear fairness, a topic few tread upon in a debate of this type.”
^ ROTFLMAO! I’m not kidding. You’re seriously cracking me up. LOL I fear fairness. LMAO. No, I’m not trying to paint any picture at all. And I lol’d even harder at “a topic few tread upon.” Hardly anybody takes your approach because they realize how dumb it is. You have no good basis for setting up the fight the way you want to, arbitrarily removing elements that you find inconvenient. I’m setting it up on a place that is completely neutral in that neither characters are denied naturally occurring elements that they normally have access to. THAT’s fair.
My response to you comparing this to a murder trial isn’t scapegoating at all. LMAO. Again, you do realize that murder trials aren’t hypothetical scenarios? And way to completely miss my point there. And I just noticed that you completely ignored the content of my posts in all your responses. Every part of your post that refers to my post says that you’re just going to ignore what I said. Seems to me that you’re the one who’s afraid. LMAO.
“Technically, David Dunn can be argued as the most powerful fictional character, as his defense is absolute. However, that’s within his far more realistic universe and story structure. Galaxy Busting energy based techniques do not exist in his fiction, and therefore were not factored in.”
^ LMAO!!!!! I don’t think you realize just how much fail is in that post of yours. How can you say that David Dunn can be argued as the most powerful fictional character when you acknowledge that relative to other characters, he’s not that powerful at all? Uh, logic failure much? You never heard of the concept of relativity, have you?
You’d factor in abilities of other characters if you’re comparing him to other characters. If you’re not factoring them in, then you’re not comparing him properly. If you’re not comparing properly, no, he can’t be argued as being the most powerful character. I don’t get what you’re even trying to say here.
“you know what i give up you win superman is stronger
well played you win goku would lose”
^ Awesome.
this is stupid who cares who would win goku or superman. we will never know who will win cause one nether of these people are real and odds are nether of the writers of the thing will come together to make a comic or a manga or a anime or cartoon of them fighting. everybody on here can compare facts day in and day out and even if the fact say so does not mean they will win things can change the out come of any fight fake or real. do the facts say superman win yes but like I said things can change with just one freaky thing happening what might this be I don’t know it could be some random event. next this has been seen in history in real life and on a show called the deadlist warrior in cases where the facts show one is stronger and out classes the other and yet the other some how wins. so does goku have a chance yes only cause we may miss something in the facts one little thing what that could be who knows we also know that know that a freaky thing can happen too again what this is I do not know. so yes superman wins based on facts alone but sense we can not say if something odd would happen or we miss something that is key superman wins but only cause facts say so unless we missed something is what I am saying or something we can never factor in that happens ok.
Did you really think you were coming in with some big revelation and everyone would just suddenly gasp at the realization that neither Goku nor Superman are real or that there’s no existing crossover between the two? Everyone’s well-aware of that.
Have you never heard of hypothetical situations?
Yes I have I don’t think there is such a point to anything like this. I seen this and just wanted to drop in and say what I wanted to say I know that they are not real and I know that everybody on here unless they are a really little kid knows that nether of them are real. I also wanted to show that facts don’t always 100% show who win cause we can not factor in everything there are always freaky accidents in everything but from what we can factor in superman does win. Like I said how ever we can not factor in everything cause of freak accidents that happen. Also we have seen this in history and in other hypothetical situations. If you have watch a show on Spike TV called Deadliest Warrior they pair up people or groups that would never have fight in history due to certain events or cause of where they live in the world and there have been cases in said show. Where one is stronger and out classes the other and yet the other person some how wins. So based on this fact alone we see that goku has a small chance of winning too. Sad thing is Paragon we can not factor in everything so unless we can get this tested like they do on the show Deadliest Warrior we will not be able to truly say who will win.
You usually leave those things out in hypothetical matches. (The only time you don’t is when it’s common enough, like Deadpool’s teleporter constantly malfunctioning.) You can’t account for every variable, so in hypothetical matches, you only consider things that are consistent for the most part and assume that there are no “freak accidents.”
Well I do know that this is a hypothetical match and in the end this is where logic comes in. Real or fake all things can have a freak accident. Nothing ever goes 100% for goku or superman they have made a mistake here and there in a fight or just doing something. So we can say that in this fight it is possible for something to go wrong and it can put it in ether ones favor. How ever facts alone with out much logic applied superman does win. It is true we can not factor in every little thing that can or will happen but like I said freak accidents do happen in real and fake fights and said freak accident can put the fight in ether ones favor weather its already in his or her favor or not. So stand by this statement this along with my one before this unless we can test it like the show I said in the last post this match will never be 100% proven. I did say this facts alone with out much logic applied superman does win. For anybody that is wondering I am a goku fan but I will not say goku wins cause of this or that or superman wins cause of this or that. I am just saying that not all can be factored in. yes we can show how strong both are or at least guess at it based on pictures alone. We also can only use canon based stuff in other words no GT and movies and with superman none of the cartoons or movies so in other words with goku only dragonball and dragonball Z with out fillers and the manga and Dragonball Online with superman comic books only. Wow makes it harder when stuff that you would like to use is taken out on both sides talk about putting a limit on both. Yes Superman has been around for along time so yes there are loads of comics to get info from goku has only been around sence about the early to late 80′s to modern day. Both have changed alot over the years and superman till this day still changes goku has not changed sence the end of dbz unless you count GT which in here we don’t. Wow I really have gone way off topic let me get back to it like I said not all can be factored in thats what I am trying to say in short.
There’s a reason you have to call them “freak accidents.” That’s because they are improbable events.
And yes, “freak accidents” can happen, but again, its a hypothetical match. We’re not deciding who will definitely win, but rather, who has the highest chance of winning against the other. And since freak accidents are, by their nature, improbable, then we can ignore them in hypothetical matches. If the chance of these events happening is low, then we can’t use them to raise the chances of a certain character winning.
I see what you are getting at and yes any if not most of these freak accidents have a low chance happening. I was only putting this out here and here is what it is that while they are low they can happen odds of them happening are low and they can not be factored in cause we can not say what will happen to everybody every second of they day. None of us can see the future so only going off stats alone on both goku and superman its clear that superman wins but only cause with stats alone sence we can not factor in everything.
There is no match for Goku
this is very hard to decide, Goku has amazing abilities due to his extensive training and his natural saiyan faculty. Take into consideration that Goku earned most of his abilities from him mastering his Ki and was taught quite a few tricks from his travels across the universe. If superman was granted the opportunity to use his Ki(every living creature has Ki same as Krillin, Yamcha etc)… and combined that with his natural strength, speed, heat vision and what not Supes would definitely win. Strip them of whatever training and Superman would emerge as a superior being. We could go the other way and throw them both in a ring and have them duke it out, obviously Goku would win. BTW, the senzu beans is just a scenario that could be played out, what would happen if superman ate a senzu bean… then what??? If you all want to have a fight that requires no further training then Goku should fight against Silver Surfer or someone in that class!!!
goku will make sure superman will go to hellllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fu ck superman
superman succccccccckkkkkkkkkk
you guys clearly do not know about what superman prime can do. goku even at super sayian 3 can’t move a planet or much less destory 1 physicaly and ki does not count as physical strenght thats energy. we are only using canon versions of goku which means super sayian 4 does not count gt was not made by akira toyiama. the true contunation of the anime dbz is dbz online sence the story line for it was writen by akira toyiama. now with all that being said goku at base form can only lift 40 tons goku at super sayian 3 can only lift about give or take 50,000 tons not even close to what superman can. superman can move a whole planet something goku has never been able to do and never will be able to do. the time of goku getting stronger is over superman is older than goku and till this day is still getting stronger no more manga or episodes have come out for dbz and in dbz online is years after goku has past away and people can still only get up to super sayian 3 on there. goku can’t breath in space superman can goku can’t go faster than light in fact about top speed for goku is the speed of light thanks to IT but superman can go 4 times the speed of light way faster than goku. so lets see so far superman is stronger and faster lets go on. superman’s prime is on a god level he knows what is going to happen before it happens much like a god would his heat vision can get bigger than goku’s kamehameha wave and way bigger than goku’s sprit bomb. in fact superman has sneezed and accidently distoryed a whole galixy something goku can’t do and again never will be able to do so it seems supermans energy is also past goku’s level next I like to add that superman prime can go in a field kyptonite and not be bothered by it so there superman wins goku loses face the facts I love dbz but superman wins i like to add that goku was basied off superman something most dbz fans do not know.
i will get smashed my goku i tried to punch and i missed then iam dead
goku would win hands down. but, think about it if Super Gogeta Super Saiyan 4 fought superman? or Broly SSJ 5. THEY WOULD MURDER SUPERMAN!!!
“goku” and all the other JapCrap anime “characters” are a joke! Now someone please get yer panties all in a bunch and tell me how wonderful these poorly drawn, uninteresting Asian cartoon figures,are! It’s all POKEY-MAN B.S. (DELIBERATELY MISSPELLED)!
LOL not even a fair fight, how can superman match up to Goku?? Goku can beat superman while sleepwalking none the less wide awake and aware of the situation, lets not mention Goku’s amazing speed and power. Another think is Goku has no weakness unlike superman ans his pathetic weakness… And just for a FYI Goku isn’t human either he is in fact an alien, a peanut scented alien to be exact
SO hands down Goku hands down will defeat Superman without breaking a sweet.
you people are stupid all of you superman prime wins goku will never win for the 100th time superman prime which is the best version of superman is god in alot of ways. next GT does not count rick it is non-canon. we only use canon versions of goku which is manga only movies do not count and the orginal DBZ does not count as it has fillers in it Dragonball Kai counts cause it sticks right with the manga of DBZ. Keyser Soze japanese cartoons look better than american cartoons and comic books why cause one they take pride in everything they do in there life they treat all there drawings like a master piece. the japanese put there heart and soul in to everthing why cause it is looked at as dishonorable if you do not. Gogeta you fell to look and read higher up superman can go faster than light in fact superman prime goes so fast you will never be able to clock it goku has been at max speed thanks to IT light speed at max goku loses and who ever pretends to be superman saying I will get my ass kicked wrong superman would win superman prime beats any and all cartoons and and comic book heros here is a list of his powers.
Creation – Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection – Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience – Superman Prime knows everything.
Omnipotent
Omnipresent – Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength – His strength is limitless.
Godlike Super speed – He can run or fly so fast it’s not comprehendible.
Godlike Super Scream
Godlike Super Smell
Godlike Xray vision – He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision
Flight
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance -
Godlike Super Dexterity
Godlike Invulnerability – Nothing can penetrate him, in fact nothing can hurt him.
Godlike Super Breath
Godlike Super Hearing – He is capable of hearing anything or anyone any where.
Godlike Giant Leaps – This ability could be connected with Flight.
Godlike Enhanced Underwater Breathing – He is capable of breathing under water for centuries. It could be possible that he can hold his breath forever.
Immortality – Superman Prime is immortal, therefore he can’t die.
Time/Space control – He has the power to time travel and warp space it self therefore he can also erase someone from existance if he wishes to do so.
I also like to add on that superman prime can fly in a field of kytonite and not be bothered by it at all so his weakness is no longer there ha ha ha. none of you know nothing about superman or goku you need to research both before saying this or that I see people that have atleast tryed or did really do there research such as Paragon being the best one on here so far. People that tryed or looks like they did Hasio, Matchstckgmr, and Bearerofbadnews. But goku loses get over it go ahead try any thing O goku gets the dragonballs what happenes superman prime ether makes them no longer exsits or warps back time and then stops it not happening and sence he knows everything he would know its coming way before it happenes. nice try dbz fans thanks for play the game but you all lose.
one more thing like I said goku was based off superman which again it goes to show most dbz fans do not know that nothing beats the orginal ever the maker/creator of dbz him self said he got the idea for goku from superman he loves superman but he never made goku strong enough to beat superman he just basied what happened to goku and his people off superman such as the planet blowing up, and coming to earth in a space ship and then being rasied by an old person see.
As much a fan as I am of superman… it’s really no contest.
For perspective:
Master Roshi (whose power level floats somewhere around the 200 range) was able to generate enough Ki in his Kamehameha to destroy the moon. That’s roughly equivalent to the total amount of energy generated by the sun in one second (that’s a lot)
Vegeta, with a power level of around 20,000, was easily capable of blowing up the Earth with his Garlic Cannon (Gallick Gun, if you prefer the anime to the manga)
Frieza, the most powerful being in the universe (before Goku and friends) was strong enough to destroy a planet -with a single finger-
(It should be noted that Goku later makes the comment that Freiza “wasn’t much of a foe”, and that someone with a comparable power level to his would be a perfect match for his 6 year old son, Goten)
By the Cell Saga, Goku had to angle his Kamehameha away from the planet, in fear of accidentally demolishing it
By the Buu sage, Goku had to deliberately control the rate at which he powered up, in order to simply prevent the Earth from being shaken to pieces (Buu himself was so strong, that he blasted the Earth into dust… on a whim)
Now compare the work ethic between Goku and Supes
Goku trains all day, every day. He even kept training after he died. Both times.
Superman has a day job
Goku is a master martial artist, having trained with Master Roshi (the greatest human martial arts instructor), GOD (Kami), the DEVIL (Piccolo), The Lord of this entire galaxy (King Kai), and the Lord of the entire universe (Kaioshin). He used to train in 100 times Earth’s gravity but decided that it wasn’t helping him that much so he stopped doing it. A Tyrannosaurus Rex would bore Goku completely (Gohan used to hunt them before he even started his training with Piccolo).
Supes… Has a mean left hook
That being said… I like both characters.
Super Man would lose because he would get a huge hole in his body like what Goku did do that to King Piccolo.
SM will get a huge hole in his weak body
goku can go to a super saiyan 800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
damn you are all dumb do you read the higher up post they should tell you who would win this is not way in in hell even if goku could fight till the end of time it self that he could be superman. you all clearly do not know a thing about superman and much less goku. for again must I say it goku was based off superman damn. the most powerfull version of superman is god not like kami in db, and dbz but real life bible god almost cause he just about can do all he can the only thing he has not done but can do is make the whole universe and all that live in it. you all clearly have no idea what superman is able to do goku can’t distory a planet using his physcal strenth he has to use ki superman can distory a whole galxy just by snezing and thats for real it happened in a comic so a planet be no problem. read his powers I posted higher up find away around them using goku’s powers.
First goku would win hands down…I wont cont gt becuz I hate the damn series to begin without u can seriously tell me goku would lose to superman…he canuse instantaneous movement and has the ability to fight while dead through baba wont use the dragon balls cuz that’s not fair to Sm bu he trains in under gravity conditions that exceed earth exponentially on numerous ocaisions. The spirit bomb wld never work Sm isn’t dumb he’d stop goku before he could form a spirit bomb of that magnitude but wen u bubble it downniethed of their powers matter becuz both can negate or block or doge the others fine so it will come down to raw fighting power like against doomsday and superman can not handle goku in this type of battle it wld take his brain to win but gokus dumb luck always prevails….and I kno toriyama never said he based goku on superman soooo yea goku wins…maybe they shld do a deadliest warriors about them
look as far as strength goes heads up til goku transforms the real problem 4 superman would be speed otherthan the obvious kai blasts not just one absorbed cannon shot besides suups takes 2 long 2 heal 4 this type of fight
There is really no argument at all here. i read somewhere that people voted over 80% that superman would beat goku. These people obviously have never seen any thing related to DBZ or GT. Goku would kill superman easily while having a great time and not breaking a sweat. Superman has cool heat vision tht melts metal. Goku can blow up a planet with a blast from his hand. Superman died from breaking his back if i remember correctly (not 100% positive) Goku would break his back and say oww. I love both characters but it is obvious this fight would be one sided towards goku. In fact good luck finding any cartoon hero that could beat him cuz i sure havnt seen one. Superman would lose to Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and even Uub. The other characters in the DBZ universe would get beat by superman in my opinion like trunks and goten but thts only because they havnt trained as much as their families have. But as for the four i mentioned earlier….ESPECIALLY GOKU superman sorry but you would not stand a chance.
For the record saying Goku was based off Superman is a very very dumb statement. He is completely different and was based on the main character from an old japanese story about a monkey boy. Not sure how that would be related to superman. You should learn everything about the characters before you comment on this argument.
Uknown no offense at all but who are you to say which versions count and which dont. Goku is Goku and Superman is Superman.
You really should read my posts a lot higher up, Joe. A lot of the information you posted about Superman is dead wrong and shows that you don’t know much about him and did not do enough research to be a good judge on who the victor would be.
Also, yes, Goku in DBZ is indeed based on Superman. Toriyama said so himself. DB started out as an homage to Journey to the West, but by the time it got to what we know as DBZ, Toriyama made Goku’s origin similar to that of Superman as an homage to the hero. Like you said, “You should learn everything about the characters before you comment on this argument.”
superman would win because dude super man is invincible he cant die even of age
man goku all the way goku m,oves to fast for even superman to see, even gohan would whoop supermans ass with one hand
well superman would poke so many holes in goku…..
that he would get confuse as to…
which hole to breath from and which hole to fart out
Goku would win super man gives a great fight but super man isnt as fast and doesnt have the spirit bomb
Goku and vegeta could fuse into sj4 Gogeata and beat super man also even dr gero can beat super man up because he can steel peoples energy.
Goku can do the spiri bomb why?
1 superman think its gonna be water so he will go in the spirt bomb.
Ok.Ok. Somepeople may say that Superman would pwn goku right? Ok Goku can punch into steel hell maybe through a dam planet made of fucking diamond.If superman tries to punch goku with his epic hands,goku is to fast to hit
Someone said flash is the fastest,HELL NO goku is 5000000 times faster,the fastest speed ive seen flash go is 2-5 secounds to the other side of the planet,goku goes to the other side like 0.11111111111111111111111111,Goku has so much friggin energy we cant just say he would run out of it and if somehow if he did.Senzu bean.If superman tries to shoot him with his eye laser,goku would dodge 
,Spirit bomb would Probaly do TONS of dmg to goku,And you cant say One of them would destroy the earth,there pure of heart so… SO OF COURSE THEY FUCKING WONT,And if superman does go into space We all no goku is smart enough not to go 
.Pro tip:if superman takes some Sun energy into full power,he knows he might destroy the earth,so he wont,and you might say they would Move the fight one a diffrent planet,The chances it having oxegon-(for goku) and a yellow sun(Superman) would be littile,and i beat superman would try to fight dirty after a while,I beat he wont land aa dam punch and if he does try to get some Sun energy(BOOM) smash him right on the ground.kyrptonit wont be needed,1. its rare to find 2. we dont have to time to search,All other JUSTICE league people is a diffrent story.i would say Batman would come close becuase hes a fucking genius,but probably wont even hurt goku.
And i meant to say Spirit bomb would do a ton of dmg to superman
Also If he does turns ssj7 or ssj6.I just…. i just…. say it would be over in 1 hr
i would say it would be a draw like when goku and vegeta fought the first time.
Its all about………Allah The Al-Mighty
It would be an epic battle only beecause goku would make it so. Theoretically if goku wanted to win like a bitch he just drain energy from the sun till the point super man would be defenseless or as he’s done before drain supermans life energy. Without the ability increase his energy Superman is a lame duck but like I said that goes against goku’s warrior code. So the fight would drag on for a couple hours until goku has something better to do like take pan fisging
Superman was literally beaten to death by a no skill no brained savage like doomsday and you would really think goku would fight supes like that. First of all goku most probably not fight supes once he realized supes has no fighting skills and in the end he would offer to becomes supermans master/teacher so one day superman would put. Up a genuine fight later. 2 superman is so used to fighting petty crooks and stopping liqueur store. Hold ups that he gets the crap kicked out of him when he fights someone whose a match for him doomsday the Cyborg superman conduit and they too have no real skills and if the cyborgs little energy attacks hurt supes. Imagine what goku’s attacks would do.
why?
Super man is pretty tough to goku. But he will beg super saiyan 2. Super man is also an alien. He just having ET powers like strength, laser eyes, speed. But goku is fighting genius. Goku knows more fighting techniques and awesome kame meha. In dragon ball world super man is just an ordinary person. Goku, super man(saiyanji) of super man.
GOKUUUUUU KICKS ASSS!!!
The thing about Goku is he had a heart disease that nearly killed him and he can die unlike superman. Superman can only be weakend by kryptonite. Goku might have the spirit bomb but, it takes a while for goku to charge it up, superman won’t give goku a chance. Also superman can use the lasers from his eyes after he freezes goku tosliceup goku into little pieces.
Sups have no chance with Goku hell he haves no chance vs Nappa
Okay everyone saying “goku will kill superman so fast…” blablabalbalabla
obviously hasent read very many supe comics. Im a fan of both DBZ and Supes. Yes if goku went ss4 and fused with ss4 vegeta he would definatley have the upperhand (i think)….BUT….if goku gets to do that Superman gets to go Superman Prime. Superman Prime has a suit (virtually indestructible) wich gives him extreme power. Superman Prime has destroyed a universe……goku destroyed a planet or two (dont remember) Superman Prime killed Doomsday (in an alternate DC universe) no problem. In my opinion Superman Prime wins.Heck maybe even just superman pissed of wins.
ps: superman prime is a BAMF.
dont i get a say in this
goku can beat the fuck out of supermannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
goku will crush in less than a blink of an eye even if all the yellow suns in the world poor on to superman goku will just kick him into a planet made of kryponite goku can even call on krillin to kill superman i am not saying superman is not strong but i am saying that he is better of being goku apprentice so all u haters of goku just keep in mind superman cannot lay a finger on goku
Dudes and dudets look at this if robots made by lux Copperation… beat the fuck out of super man imagine a races with the power to destroy the planet no the freaking universe… but i would say its a tie cause you goku fan know how goku minds work he like tournament(matches strong opponents) he would kill superman, if superman was evil…. common goku can move faster than superman and hes stronger when goku fly the freaking city can be destroy xD LOL
Oh and sprite boom wouldn’t do superman nothing superman is pure heart remember when goku said to gohan as long as you got pure heart you can reflect it or something like that (go gohan NOW!!! do it!! *bounces off, hit vageta* MUAHAHAHAHA *vageta screems like a bitch*
goku only win
I, Dr. Manhattan, can disintegrate both of them with my fart.
every body nows that goku will win! 3P!C
napa sucks dickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
[][
[:]
DOROBO MAN @ Son Goku don’t have a tail no more -.-’ he lost it when he was a kid. His grandpa pulled it off, because he knew what happened when it was full moon. Son Goku don’t have any weakness. Or well, he likes food. But who doesnt!? .. Superman cant increase his powers. He is born with what he got. Son Goku is able to increase his powers by getting better at whatever he is practising. Son Goku would most likely blast Superman with a kamehameha, like Ants are blasted with a Magnifying Glass+Sun. There is really not anything to discuss here, Son Goku is far more powerfull then Superman. Thats just a fact
goku would win easy even if goku ran into a snag he would just fuse with vegeta and become ss4 gogeta who has unlimited power plus if it is a rainy day no power for superman
heres is the truth goku and supermans strength are close well almost until goku goes super sayian and above think about it superman picked up a small island and goke before super sayain stoped a piece of earth about 1.5 of an island when he transformed his strength and power multiplied by ten super man is roughly as fast as the speed of a bullet times 30 equaling around 30000 mph he raced the flash and it took about 10 min of the episode for them to run across the planet all the way to where they started the flash one by about 1 mile maybe 2 miles when gotnks went super sayain 3 it showed him fly across the planet in about 15 seconds so therefore its assumed that supersayain 3 could be that fast or close to that fast also goku can teleport superman away so the truth is goku is way more powerful then superman ever was but here is the end game truth he is not the strongest being ever created that trophy belongs to a character simply named the android which lex luthor had a non tech scientist create this being is able to completly duplicate anyones powers and abilities simply by looking and scaning them which takes him about 1 sec which he would most certainly do as soon as he meant goku making himself instantly as powerful as goku plus hed have the powers and abilities of anyone else with power and ability he ever comes across imagine buu asorbing technique that requires no absorbing just simple quick glance and boom hes now stronger then whoever he has to fight so the end game truth is the adroid has beat supermans ass before could easily do so again and would send goku quickly to the next dimension with ease in theory if he ever met god of corse of cartoon /anime world he would then be the new god of cartoon/anime world or at least thier equals so theres the truth and the most ridiculous character ever created here is where you can find him justice league unlimited season 3 episode 8 in this episode every super human from earth and villain stand a ground outside the atmosphere awaiting to stop him from reaching lex luthor he easily knock all of them out and get to lex without hardship
Most of the guys in marvel comics would get stomped by mid level dbz guys. Some of the top marvel guys- would probably defeat Goku. You have to factor in some rules though.
Where will the fight take place? Will Goku have home court advantage or not? If it is in the DBZ world then guys that punch their way into different dimensions would stand no chane. Goku is a stronger hitter than those guys by the time the entire DB saga ends…. that mechanic is just not allowed in DB. If Goku were to go to marvel he would retain all powers… why? Comic books have rules- and DB universe is horribly inconsistant(especially DBGT fuckin so inconsistent)… but comic books are even more inconsistent. They don’t have 1 rule to abide by…. so naturally all of Goku’s powers would transfer over to the comic universe- WHILE certain things are simply impossible in the db universe… so if Goku has home court advantage he wins almost every time if not 100% of the time. If he goes over to the marvel realm- there is a good chance some of the really top level guys would beat him.
Of course, if Goku were to somehow survive the fight odds are he would return and win. The harder the beating a Saiyan takes the stronger he gets. Key examples, in the db universe- Vegeta gets his ass kicked upon landing on Namek… but after he is healed in the heal pod- he fights the same people and beats them. A saiyans power has no limit, at the same time certain marvel character powers have no limit…. some guys come out of the gate blazing like Superboy Prime…. but I don’t know if any 1 marvel character has shown the capacity to improve the way a saiyan does.
Sorry- meant to say comics seem to have no rules. The marvel and dc universe is pretty much anything goes- so all powers apply. Where in the DB verse certain powers are just impossible- no matter how strong you are. Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta can easily destroy countless universes… but saiyans are born to fight. They are the embodiment of warrior spirit. How many guys can claim that if with every fight- they can beat their previous self. So the Goku that fought yesterday wouldn’t stand a chance against the goku of tomorrow… and the goku the day after would rofl stomp the other guys also.
What about magical powers that would cause Goku to go boom? I don’t think anyone in marvel has the short range speed of ss4 gogeta.
Certain inconsistencies have to be ignored for the sake of the fight. Like Goku being hurt by simple things like falling down… Future Trunks was able to slice Frieza in half… but couldn’t penetrate Gokus finger with his sword. People claim Goku can’t even take hot energy blasts or planet busters. Which is totally ridiculous- Gogeta SS4 can survive universe blasters.
Goku breaks the speed of light very very early in the DBverse- and his power by the end.. is an insurmountable number higher than it was at the beginning.
Goku will definitely win,especially if he was a super sayain 4!!!!!!! Superman will have to fight Goku on super sayain 2 level to make it even. Goku not only has strenght like superman,he has more abilities and techniques(ko ken,kahmahamha,spirit bomb,instant transmission,super dragon fist,solar flare and can raise power levels),plus he can read power levels!!!! Superman has pure strenght and can shoot his laser beam eyes only. They both smart fighters, but Goku definitely has an advantage…..Goku has trained martial arts his entire life and earned his skill and strenght… even though they both come from a different planet.If you disagree,your in denial and dont really know both characters!!!!! GOKU’S Character is like JESUS with Martial Arts Abilities. Real Talk!!!!!!
Goku would tap dat azz all over the galaxy
Manny Pacquiao vs Goku will be a better match lol
1 goku is fast as the speed of light super man isint that and he is only in super sayin 1 when he learned that 2. goku gets his spirt bomb from the sun so if he (superman) goes to the sun to get more power goku will make one 3. air yes that is the disadvantige for goku he cant breath in space but he could just go get air really fast because he is going at the speed of light so
i have seen him (goku) go up therre a a long amont of time 3. if it was sericous goku would beat superman into to nothing really if superman cant die he would probly dolike how he did sorry fogot name of the followingbut he did us the power of a star and he i think could make a portal to a difrent diamention but if picolo can open a portal to hell then he would just thow him in there even if goku was good/evil in this situation he could even if piccolo wont help he could trick gualable denta or force him ik he would do it to get rid of him but like i said hes to gualbe 4.if goku’s tail gets riped off even if it did make him just goto super sayin 3 so what hes faster and stronger at ss1 so he could use kyptinite on superman he would be dissabled permintely goku would probly thow him into the sun with it in side him xd and he would die evechly 
goku would pwn superman and all his super friend piece by piece besides superman has less freinds if it was all goku’s freinds vs superman’s freind which is really only superwoman and batman,superdog (whitch i think was a stupid idea) and if u count all cartoons with superman in it theres all so batdog and supercat with is even stupider xd batdog will get pwned and supercat i think dosnt have any abiltys so wow thow him in space instint death and wow throw some kyptonite at superdog something random and stupid happends like he could become a idiot , a fish , a cat , a dog thats drunk ,or even simply take his powers with is all stupid right supergirl could be pwned just like superman but she can fight thow o yeah supergirl is freinds with wonderwoman and she can fight but but goku fights better goku does have more freind they only have a few freinds gokus freinds could eat all them alive wow u o have 2 guys who could just open a portal to hell and get them in there then wish that goku was out so 
goku and his freinds would pwn.
I AM SON GOKU AND SUPERMANS ASS I WILL DESTROY OR RIP OFF!!!!
Goku got beat by a 10-year old with boxing gloves and glasses at one point after reaching ss3
I’ve noticed a lot of comments towards Goku winning on here, are either biased, poorly written, or both. The fewer comments I’ve seen towards Superman winning however, are non-biased, well written, and very detailed/informative. The reason for this being, is because the Superman supporters on here, know about both characters. The reason why a ton of people think that Goku would win, is because they only know about Dragon Ball Z, and not DC comics. While I’m not an expert on either, I love and know about both. Enough to were I can give a valid opinion on who would win in a fight. Goku is awesome, don’t get me wrong people, but I’m going with Superman on this one.
^ THANK YOU for acknowledging that, Marvel Man. I put a lot of thought into my arguments. One thing I think I forgot to post a reference for is the claim that base Goku maxes at 40 tons or below. Here it is:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48872/912919-goku_40_tons_super.jpg
Compare that to this:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/84191/1641606-feat.jpg
(Which is more than trillions of tons.) And it’s easy to understand why we’re not exaggerating that Superman would dominate.
Anyway, I’ve made the same observations too. All the pro-Goku arguments clearly have no knowledge of Superman. (Some that do are misinformed, using non-canon material.) It’s hard to take their arguments seriously.
Oh, my mistake. I did post a scan of it earlier. Oh well. =P
It’s worth noting that DC has done another reboot, so as it is, I’m not too sure of Superman’s power and skillset.
Goku would easily slaughter any version of Superman if you dare to debate with me tee hee ^__^
Oh it’s been a while since the last time I saw someone use Paragon’s intelligent cough* sarcasm cough* logic about cannon and what is to be dismissed as filler or invalid which basically states that “anyone can dictate what Superman is capable of, as long as it’s licensed by DC and hereby empowering a typical Superman fanboy to pull any resource pertaining to their character’s abilities as official cannon… but a DBZtard is not allowed under any circumstance, to call upon movie adaptation and GT as being official.”
Now before I even begin to dish out some serious geek smash… take the time to sit back, relax and let it sink in for a bit as you try to comprehend what I just said in the above pharagraph… I mean come on, seriously?!? like yeah, seriously… it’s amusing how you can go on with your “facts” with such a straight face without even blinking an eye to realize how utterly flawed that kind of logic is and the worst thing about that, is that this is just one example. I honestly don’t wanna get into this debate but it’s New Year’s eve and I’m bored when I typed this so yeah lawl!
^ lol I outright state what version of Superman is canon and how we can’t use non-canon versions (besides which the strongest version of Superman–Superman from DC One Million, who is basically like God–would easily decimate the strongest version of Goku). Way to fail at reading comprehension.
The argument boils down to this: DBZ has too large a gap between the power of ki attacks and physical strength. In early DB, Roshi can destroy the moon with a kamehameha, but after Cell saga, Goku at base caps at only 10-40 tons (see my scans above for proof). Compare that to Superman, whose strength pretty much scales with his durability.
Basically, pick any version of Superman who can live through Goku’s ki attacks and you get a Superman who can kill Goku with a flick of his wrist. Pick a version of Superman who is physically on Goku’s level and you get a Superman who’ll get vaporized by Goku’s ki attacks.
The Superman (again, before the most recent reboot) falls in the latter: can live through Goku’s ki attacks and is physically too powerful for Goku. (See above scans for proof.) Not only that, but he has better survivability with his ability to survive in space and speed enough to outrun a kamehameha (see above scans again).
Oops, I meant to say “falls in the former*.”
I should clarify though.
Superman could survive the basic ki attacks. Fully charged, solar system busting kamehameha? Maybe, maybe not. Again, he’s survived flying through a red sun and punches from Superboy Prime and those might be stronger (I’m no physicist).
Why don’t we just find some middle ground for this debate? Superman stomps Goku physically. Goku destroys Superman through ki attacks. It depends on who lands the fatal blow first.
My friend wind up correcting me. Superman has apparently tanked worse like a sun going supernova (see Action Comics #867), so he can definitely tank any ki attack that isn’t fully charged.
So there goes Goku’s slim chance of beating Superman.